RIP Cybertruck

Posted by voxadam 1 hour ago

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Comments

Comment by brightball 41 minutes ago

After Helene knocked out power in parts of my area for a little over 14 days, I found out that a friend of ours used his cybertruck to power his house through the entire mess. He'd run the house on it for a couple of days, then drive the cybertruck over to a super charger station, recharge, then come home and plug the house back in.

The battery capacity on those things is equivalent to 9 Tesla Powerwall units or something close to it.

They may be ugly, but the emergency prepper in me always wanted one after hearing that story. Before, I always wanted to install powerwalls...but I never considered in an extended event being able to drive my powerwalls somewhere to recharge them.

Comment by thanhhaimai 13 minutes ago

I ran the fridges and essentials with my Ioniq 5 the last time there was an extended power loss.

I don't think the residential power generator is needed anymore if you have an electric car.

Comment by lrobinovitch 15 minutes ago

This is now a feature of most new Tesla vehicles:

https://www.tesla.com/powershare/#vehicles

> Powershare allows you to draw power directly from your compatible Tesla vehicle to power your devices, your home or the grid.

> Powershare is currently available for all Cybertruck vehicles, and all new Model 3 and Model Y2 vehicles ordered on October 1, 2026 or later.

> To verify if your vehicle has Powershare, navigate to ‘Software’ > ‘Additional Vehicle Info’ > ‘Powershare Support: Enabled’ on your vehicle touchscreen.

Comment by maerF0x0 33 minutes ago

There are cheaper, more reliable, and easily repaired generators though.

Comment by victorbojica 18 minutes ago

But can they also be driven?

Comment by paxy 9 minutes ago

You can drive a $30K car and have a $10K backup power system.

An $80K-100K car that replaces the two isn't some genius purchase.

Sure you can spend all the money you want on a luxury toy, nothing wrong with it, but it's weird trying to justify it as anything but that.

Comment by 80fj0348i 3 minutes ago

Yes. Many electric cars and trucks have this feature.

Comment by trial3 15 minutes ago

you're inventing the alternator from first principles

Comment by slowin 12 minutes ago

No, that's what my car is for. You can't drive your cybertruck when it's running your refrigerator. Wrong tool for the job.

Comment by kube-system 26 minutes ago

Ford had EV trucks that could do that before Tesla did.

Comment by kendkwncowncn 11 minutes ago

No one is saying they can’t. Drop the whataboutism, please.

Comment by alt227 12 minutes ago

Do they now?

Comment by dragontamer 5 minutes ago

I know its been a few years, but the Cybertruck has been an epic disaster.

Cybertruck was announced first. Then Ford _released_ the F150 Lightning, including the ability to operate as a backup battery for a house. And a dozen or so months later, Cybertruck comes out at a much higher price than F150 Lightning ever was.

Comment by jonhohle 29 minutes ago

Many EVs can do the same thing.

It’s unclear to me how a vehicle battery can be 9-10x the size of a house battery, be used as a house battery, include an highway safe cabin, motors and wheels and only cost 4x what a single home battery costs. Oh, and at least Kia rates their battery warranty based on miles driven, so using it as a home battery does not impact any 10-year capacity guarantees.

AI tells me they are completely different though, so I must be missing something.

Comment by 3 minutes ago

Comment by twoWhlsGud 6 minutes ago

Good question - different markets with different margins and supply chains?

Comment by horsawlarway 3 minutes ago

The answer is mostly that the powerwall is an incredibly overpriced home battery.

They want ~9k for a freaking 13.5kwh pack.

I can buy a UL certified, 16kwh, outdoor rated pack for 3.5k (ex - EG4 allweather)

I can buy just the LFP batteries themselves for the new powerwall 3 LFP version (no BMS, no shell, no certification) for $1116... https://18650battery.com/products/byd-302ah-3-2v-lifepo4-pri...

Powerwall is a scammy product. WAY too expensive for the storage it provides.

---

So the summary is: Cybertruck is using a different battery chemistry, Powerwall is a scam.

(I mean - to be clear, the Cybertruck is also a scam, but it's a different kind of scam not directly related to the battery capacity, since it's hauling around a 123kWh NCMA battery pack)

Comment by TheSockStealer 39 minutes ago

I think "recycling" cybertrucks in this manner, basically to reuse their batteries, may give them a more practical afterlife then when they were a truck.

Comment by TheSockStealer 36 minutes ago

I just checked and prices are going to have to come way down. Who is buying a 2024 Cybertruck for $70k+?

Comment by annoyingnoob 32 minutes ago

Try an F150 Lightning with the Extended Battery

Comment by SoftTalker 34 minutes ago

Recycling them to make saucepans from the stainless steel would give them a more practical afterlife then when they were a truck.

Comment by zippyman55 8 minutes ago

Not bad. The shell would also make a nice BBQ.

Comment by skizm 34 minutes ago

Can you do this with other normal EVs? I assume they'd have lower capacity, but just getting some power for your fridge, wifi, and chargers might be worth.

Comment by largbae 28 minutes ago

No, you can't even do it with most other Teslas. Current models will give you 20A of 120V out from the battery, but most don't have an inverter big enough.

There is a model of Ford Lightning that has power sharing and now that resale values are way down it just might be a cost effective home battery that you can drive around during non-emergencies....

Comment by 24 minutes ago

Comment by doctoboggan 20 minutes ago

Sort of. With my Kia EV9 I can use a V2L adapter to run an extension cord for essential items in my home. I understand in other markets there is a V2H connector so you can connect it to your home mains power but I don’t think it’s available in the US

Comment by alistairSH 28 minutes ago

In theory, yes, but they need to have the hardware/firmware to do it. Pretty sure most of the full-size electric trucks do so, but not sure about any of the smaller crossover EVs.

You also need to have the house setup to run off a generator. You don't want the truck power feeding back into the grid. IIRC, that's usually done with a big switch near the main panel.

Comment by 27183 26 minutes ago

Generally a propane generator is a wiser, more reliable backup option. Propane doesn't go bad, and in disaster scenarios often the sun isn't shining or your solar panels could be damaged. Solar + battery is a good system when the weather is good and everything is going well, but for a fallback system a propane generator can't be beat.

Comment by chasd00 2 minutes ago

Wouldn’t a diesel or gasoline generator be better? You can carry both in a bucket found on the side of the road which isn’t possible with propane.

Comment by mrj 17 minutes ago

Yeah, this is where I landed, too. Except propane bottles only get me about 3-4 hours per bottle and it's pricey. It ran my $50 for one day of AC during the last outage.

I just bought a kit to convert to natural gas though. Most people who've done it are happy to not change bottles all the time. It won't help after an earthquake but the regular PSPS outages I get make natural gas a better fit for the moment.

Comment by iamnothere 1 minute ago

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Comment by alt227 7 minutes ago

Im not sure AC is the sort of thing most people are thinking about needing power for in an emergency or disaster scenario, its one of the most power hungry things you can use.

Comment by Scene_Cast2 23 minutes ago

I'm looking into getting a large EV so I can move off of a propane generator. A generator needs service, it will cut power for 5-10 seconds while it starts up (so your PCs and whatnot will power cycle), and it's loud.

Comment by jmull 12 minutes ago

Won't an EV have maintenance costs too? And cost a lot more than a propane generator? And take time to switch over to supply electricity to your house?

The quiter part makes sense, but there are a lot more practical solutions to that too.

Comment by bob1029 16 minutes ago

What are the chances that the supercharger station even has power after a hurricane? You want something that is already on the property. I've had roads blocked by fallen trees for days after a windstorm event.

If you are concerned about riding through a 14 day+ event you need a generator. Even a fully off-grid solar / wind setup could be compromised in these kinds of storms. I've seen entire roofs cleaned off by a <100mph storm. Anything not bolted down to a concrete slab cannot be depended on.

Comment by nashashmi 13 minutes ago

High. They typically need heavy power lines that are either underground or way up overhead.

Comment by conductr 4 minutes ago

From my perspective, owning a truck and SUV and using them differently for various use cases, the cybertruck is neither. So even if I ignore everything else I feel about it’s aesthetic, Musk, politics, etc. It simply does not serve many real world needs that I have. It put itself in a very narrow box of, only people that really like this quirky design and also like/feel indifferent to the tangential stuff will want to buy this truck. Oh, also you have to be able to afford it too. This is such a small addressable market for a vehicle to target. Was never going to work.

However, it provided content and distraction and kept the stock high longer than it should have and I feel like that’s what Musk continues to excel at.

Comment by dmix 1 minute ago

The Ford F-150 Lightning also failed and it was a truck. It similarly was way too expensive and had some issues with towing (range).

Comment by tyoma 48 minutes ago

Kids really love these things and get very excited to see them on the road.

They are going to be very valued collectors items in 30 years once the kids of today have enough disposable income to buy whichever are left roadworthy by then.

Comment by coloneltcb 38 minutes ago

My experience is the opposite. My kids, and any friends of theirs riding with us, will boo whenever they see them on the road

Comment by ivanjermakov 21 minutes ago

Emotions from both ends of a spectrum are positive indicators of future's collection value.

Comment by Grombobulous 15 minutes ago

Unless you’re Ferrari or Porsche, you don’t want to be in the situation where your vehicle has future collectors’ value. That usually just means it didn’t sell very well (rarity).

Let’s keep in mind that Tesla invested in this truck to be the next F-150, which is the best-selling vehicle in the USA for the past multiple decades.

Comment by next_xibalba 15 minutes ago

Very clearly behavior introduced and encouraged by the parents, driven by politics, and not the merits of the object itself. Though it is an interesting commentary on the extreme, enforced conformity and politicization-of-everything we see in the world today.

Comment by komali2 2 minutes ago

> and not the merits of the object itself

This is interesting to say given that by most objective measures of what constitutes a good truck, the cybertruck is a bad truck.

Comment by slowin 10 minutes ago

Or, it's just objectively ugly and cringe, which it is.

Comment by alt227 5 minutes ago

Nothing about design or looks is objective. Lots of people like the design. Dont assume your opinion is objectively 'right'.

Comment by pfannkuchen 5 minutes ago

Sure but kids don’t generally boo at ugly cars, they just don’t really notice them.

Comment by dilap 32 minutes ago

Old enough to be haters, I guess.

Mostly I've seen younger kids love it. I was at the park and a little girl saw a Cybertruck pull up -- "Look, Dad, it's from the future!"

I think Cybertruck is probably ultimately a failure, but the amount of hate it gets when they are at least trying to push things outside of the normal makes me sad. The amount of negativity towards anything new that's not perfect is insane.

Comment by wahnfrieden 25 minutes ago

Not only was it not perfect, it was a total failure - they are stopping all production

Comment by latexr 15 minutes ago

> the amount of hate it gets when they are at least trying to push things outside of the normal makes me sad. The amount of negativity towards anything new that's not perfect is insane.

A significant portion of the hate they get is for what they represent and who they’re from, not because they’re “new” or “different” or “not perfect”.

Comment by rdiddly 5 minutes ago

You don't think its origin as the brain-fart of a mediocre and megalomanic billionaire has anything to do with it?

Comment by qwerpy 8 minutes ago

My kids love cybertrucks (I have one). Maybe our kids can meet and my kids can have a teaching experience about how to deal with bullies.

Comment by kaldev 4 minutes ago

Hipster coffee shop

Comment by TheBlight 33 minutes ago

Doubt you had anything to do with that

Comment by PorciiVorbesc 30 minutes ago

>My kids, and any friends of theirs riding with us, will boo whenever they see them on the road

Because adults around them groomed them for those actions. Kids don't just start booing at objects out of the blue, they parrot the learned behavior of the adults around them.

Comment by andrewjf 28 minutes ago

Yeah we did

Comment by PorciiVorbesc 21 minutes ago

Sorry for those kids.

Comment by vegan_because_i 17 minutes ago

kids do live in a society

Comment by PorciiVorbesc 12 minutes ago

And the leaves move when the wind blows.

Comment by sphinxterai 14 minutes ago

Sorry about your kids. They must suck

Comment by slowin 8 minutes ago

Sounds like they have pretty good taste to me! We're talking about a failed product, very few people found this thing attractive.

Comment by MOARDONGZPLZ 34 minutes ago

I’m an ultra lib, despise Elon, hope he faces a jury of peers to answer for all he has done, but this seems like learned behavior. My toddler son thinks they look really good (wife and I think they look atrocious and our anti-Elon bias doesn’t help).

Comment by burnerRhodov3 17 minutes ago

>to answer for all he has done

Create hundreds of thousands of jobs, paid the most tax of anyone in history by a large margin, and provided hope for America? Where would we be without spaceX launches? Still reliant on foreign adversaries to access space?

Comment by Matl 9 minutes ago

Also cut essential foreign aid, likely to result in thousands extra deaths, fired essential government workers for no reason that then had to be hired back at extra expense, while asking others to send him an email justifying their employment, accessed government records of citizens he should have no visibility into, likely misusing them, made up claims about 200+ year old receiving pensions, made Grok available to assist in committing war crimes in Iran and Latin America, not to speak of Grok 'undressing' random people on the internet, spent millions on election interference etc. etc.

Otherwise you're of course right.

Comment by next_xibalba 13 minutes ago

> hope he faces a jury of peers to answer for all he has done

What criminal charges, specifically, do you think he could and should be tried on?

Comment by jms703 8 minutes ago

De Lorean status in the future.

Comment by lkramer 31 minutes ago

Maybe there needs to be a new Back to the Future that uses them instead of a DeLorean:)

Comment by mahboi 24 minutes ago

I know a teenager who got a Fisker Karma. Maybe he bought the dip.

Comment by PacificSpecific 30 minutes ago

Kind of like a delorean

Comment by tyoma 20 minutes ago

I think this is exactly it. They are different and unlike anything else on the road.

Comment by afavour 9 minutes ago

It’s certainly not exactly it because the Delorean has an indelible association with a classic film that’s beloved by many. It’s iconic without ever seeing one on the road (and most people have not)

The Cybertruck does not have that quality.

Comment by fwip 1 minute ago

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Comment by slowin 8 minutes ago

Except one looks like a sports car and the other looks like a garbage truck/can.

Comment by hexagonsun 45 minutes ago

no way the batteries last that long

Comment by richwater 39 minutes ago

I mean the 4680 cells are used in the model Y and the pack assembly isn't that complicated. I don't expect it to be financially ruinous to replace over time.

Comment by orbital-decay 29 minutes ago

The software of a smartphone on wheels might be a bit harder to replace.

Comment by lettergram 24 minutes ago

I think there's a lot of kids (and parents) being influenced by politics more than pure ascetics.

The classroom of kids Ive seen (my kids attend 3 different schools), all of them are amazed by them - age ranges: 3, 7, 9 all their classrooms loved them. Same with some of the older kids I've been around. They're all boys, I do imagine it's a very boy-friendly car.

I personally don't have a cyber truck, not big on it personally, but never put my own opinions into my kids. The kids may not "like it", but they are amazed by it.

I'm in an area that doesn't really hate Musk, so I think that does have an impact.

Comment by mahboi 22 minutes ago

I've never met or known a person IRL who cares about Tesla's ownership. I know people who hate Teslas cause they drive in the carpool lane or because they had bad experiences owning one, that's about it.

Comment by wahnfrieden 24 minutes ago

That's because adults taught them that behavior

Comment by afavour 2 minutes ago

I suspect we’re going to discover a depressing future for today’s era of cars. 40 years from now will the Cybertruck software even let you turn it on? When will the last update have been? What servers does it communicate with that’ll end up long since decommissioned?

(FWIW my kids giggle at a Cybertruck and say it looks silly. I’m not convinced they’ll long for one in years to come)

Comment by eqmvii 1 minute ago

Yeah my 5yo falls in this camp and is resistant to nuanced political discussions about it FOR SOME REASON

Comment by dgacmu 46 minutes ago

You must have different kids than I do. Mine point at them and observe that they spotted another dumpster.

Comment by trollbridge 46 minutes ago

I suspect you influenced them to feel this way.

Comment by CharlieDigital 41 minutes ago

I have two girls; never mentioned Elon, Tesla, nor CT to them.

Both think it looks ugly.

No need to influence most people, IMO. Vehicles are shaped the way they are because the designs have broad appeal in general (familiarity? proportions? trends?). Most of us would find a normal, well-tailored black suit to be appealing and be baffled by avant garde, high fasion men's clothing.

Why should anyone be surprised that a completely novel design isn't appealing to most?

Comment by throwup238 17 minutes ago

> Vehicles are shaped the way they are because the designs have broad appeal in general (familiarity? proportions? trends?).

Isn’t it mostly fuel efficiency standards and manufacturability? You’ve got a chassis that’s used for like five different models for five years between refreshes, not a lot of room to innovate without driving up all the costs so only the luxury cars can afford to look different.

Comment by CharlieDigital 10 minutes ago

Most cars are and have been roughly the same shape for decades now. Rare innovations here and there, but largely still hold the same basic shapes across manufacturers and markets.

Comment by faefox 45 minutes ago

That's just good parenting. :)

Comment by seizethecheese 40 minutes ago

Do you think so? I'm not arguing here, I genuinely don't know.

My kids are too young for this, but surely there's a tradeoff here. Should you override some of your child's natural wonder because of adult aesthetics (or worse political concerns)? Yes. But how often? I'm not sure the line should be drawn at a truck design. (Although, maybe you're teaching your kid taste, again I'm not sure.)

Comment by faefox 33 minutes ago

I was admittedly being a little facetious. It's not surprising to me that kids, especially kids who are at that age where monster trucks, construction equipment, the Batmobile etc. are the coolest things in the world would be drawn to the Cybertruck because it certainly does stand out and look larger than life in a way, like it was ripped from the pages of a comic book. I don't think there's any real harm in that, setting my own feelings about Elon and what he has come to represent aside for a moment. Let them enjoy the weird shiny thing while they're still too young to understand why it sucks. ;)

Comment by gchamonlive 43 minutes ago

I wouldn't use disliking Cybertrucks as a proxy for good parenting. You can hate everything a symbol represents and still find the symbol cool, like I think motorcycle clubs are awesome but despise the toxic masculinity stereotype many reproduce.

Comment by fleroviumna 42 minutes ago

[dead]

Comment by dgacmu 22 minutes ago

I suspect you're right. :) I think it's ghastly and poorly engineered/ designed.

14yo probably influenced -me- more than the other direction, though. That one has strong opinions.

This is the same 14yo who when she was younger would delightedly point out every Tesla (then, mostly model S's) she saw on the road. Probably still responding to both aesthetics and politics but it was interesting to see the shift.

Comment by WillowWithAWand 42 minutes ago

Gonna let you in on a little secret:

Every parent influences their children. It's called parenting.

Comment by stephencanon 36 minutes ago

Yeah. The kids I coach (1st-4th grade) generally call them 'stupidtrucks'.

Comment by jwineinger 44 minutes ago

Same. Mine like calling out "cyber-yuck!"

Comment by kevmo 40 minutes ago

My toddler saw one and got really excited "Look, Mama, a barn is driving!"

Comment by soperj 44 minutes ago

yeah, my kids will call out, look another "Cyberbarf"

Comment by sphinxterai 12 minutes ago

Your kids must have terrible parents.

Comment by mingus88 36 minutes ago

This theory backs up my opinion that every rich person who drives an exotic car is just an eight year old who had a Lamborghini poster on their wall growing up

Comment by LatencyKills 33 minutes ago

I own a exotic car for the same reason I own mechanical watches. I love the engineering and craftsmanship. (But yes, I had several Lamborghini posters growing up) ;-)

Comment by llm_nerd 9 minutes ago

> Kids really love these things and get very excited to see them on the road.

Do you have anything empirical to back this up? This feels like someone kind of hoping something is true. It's like the Harley rider sure that everyone thinks they're super cool with their super loud bike.

Comment by 42 minutes ago

Comment by slowin 11 minutes ago

Every kid I know hates the cybertruck, they literally call it a boomer-mobile.

Comment by SCdF 40 minutes ago

I'm sure they will hold value as Hitler's paintings do

Comment by 33 minutes ago

Comment by RobotToaster 33 minutes ago

As much as I dislike Musk, it was nice to see someone try something that didn't look identical to every other car/truck on the road.

Comment by ReptileMan 25 minutes ago

I am tired of grey painted eggs too. The design language has gone downhill.

Comment by Balgair 12 minutes ago

My understanding is more that economy and safety standards have driven us towards these aerodynamic and impact absorbing shapes. I may be quite wrong though!

The cybertruck had good enough safety ratings, but kinda just decided to not care about the aerodynamics and economy side. Which freed Elon up a lot in terms of style.

Personally, I also agree that it was refreshing to see something bold out there on the road. It's just that the final product looked just 'off' enough to make it look bad in the end.

Like, it's wheel base is about 6 inches too long and the ride height is about 6 inches too low, making it look a bit toddler-y to my eyes. The bed was also just not practicable and too small (something I see on a lot of trucks these days). The speed was good, the torque was great, the giant screen you can't feel when driving was not. The seats were uncomfortable for my build.

Overall, the car was a statement, one that just barely missed the mark to my eyes, but it did miss

Comment by Esophagus4 6 minutes ago

No more flat primer gray cars.

That’s a platform we can all get behind.

Comment by gnarcoregrizz 24 minutes ago

The absurdity is the best part of it. Finally it was something new, in a landscape where every car and truck has looked the same for the past 20 years. I'm happy someone designed and built something so crazy and different.

It probably would have been better had they not been mass produced, and maybe did a very limited quantity run - make it more like a collector item... I suppose thats what it'll be now. I see quite a few on the road, it takes away from the uniqueness.

Comment by monegator 18 minutes ago

lol, no. I actually saw one at a client's and beside being uglier than what a 5yo would be able to draw, it was also built like shit. I'm talking about going to the hardware store for aluminum panels and bend them, cut with scissors and some soldering job here and there kind of bad.

thank god these monstruosities were forbidden in europe

Comment by maxdo 24 minutes ago

politics aside, Cybertuck is/was an engineering breakthrough.

48 volts, steering wheel, no paint ( better durability), trunk, wipers etc. the car pushed the boundaries. If you compare level of creative thinking of cybertruck vs lets say electric ford, it's not even comparable. I respect that despite one person behind it. I don't care how it looks. It's polarizing. oh well.

My 11 y.o. relative from abroad asked me to take rl pictures of the truck, after he heard my neighbor bought it.

Comment by classictraffic 13 minutes ago

I think Tesla did some cool things with it, but I think it's a little too early to label it as an engineering breakthrough. I'm not convinced some of the things they did and decisions they made (one large wiper, the stainless steel is susceptible to surface corrosion, various pinch points, weak control arms) will hold up over time

Comment by mahboi 18 minutes ago

The lack of paint is the only cool part

Comment by 13 minutes ago

Comment by craigmcnamara 9 minutes ago

It's a hulking pile of shit built to be hostile to the people and things it shares an environment with. The middle fingers and thumbs downs people aim at them are fully deserved by the buyer and driver. They don't fit in parking spaces and are driven by people who think they're the main character of earth. I look forward to the day when the last one melts from a faulty battery fire.

Comment by int32_64 49 minutes ago

Electric trucks in general seem terrible. You only see Rivians and Cybertrucks in urban settings, the electric F150 was discontinued. Anybody who knows how people that actually need trucks use trucks saw this coming, I never once saw a cybertruck used as a truck.

Comment by ElevenLathe 2 minutes ago

I see electric Silverados and Hummers (not a truck, but effectively the same vehicle as the electric Silverado) all the time, usually pulling landscaping utility trailers (flatbeds with huge commercial lawnmowers, etc.). I have no idea if this is economic or not (they definitely aren't cheap) but I've heard electric towing can't be beat for responsiveness, torque, etc.

Comment by WJW 43 minutes ago

I always got the impression that the vast majority of the F150s are never used as trucks either. Americans just like really really big cars because fuel is cheap there and none of the cities are old enough that big cars are impractical.

Comment by SoftTalker 28 minutes ago

No, the F150 has great sales numbers but this is mostly due to commercial/work use. And commercial buyers need trucks that can tow, haul, be fitted with large toolboxes, booms/cranes, winches, plows, etc. The F150 electric solved none of those problems.

Comment by lyelibi 14 minutes ago

You're dismissing a cultural aspect of the popularity of trucks in america. There is way more trucks in Texas than say in Indiana, or Massachusetts on the road. Texas is one of the only states where people still drive hummers. They're not all doing off-roads

Comment by yummypaint 38 minutes ago

Most people driving trucks in the US don't use them as trucks, especially in cities. I think most people willing to take on a $1000/mo truck payment for their personal vehicle in the current economic climate are doing so for social reasons anyway. Whether the electric trucks on offer at the same price can compete on that front is a much more slippery question.

If we can get some affordable electric trucks in the US, it will be very interesting to see how the more rational segments of the market react once they are no longer priced out.

Comment by anticorporate 35 minutes ago

> Anybody who knows how people that actually need trucks use trucks saw this coming

I'm a current truck driver and very excited to swap out my ICE truck for a Slate next year. I need something that can haul my trash to the dump, grab a load of wood chips for the garden, and bring home the occasional sheet good from the home store.

I agree with your assessment as it applies to the Cybertruck or F150, but not the idea of an electric truck. Some people buy trucks because they need a light-duty hauling solution; unfortunately, the market seems to only want to sell luxury SUVs that happen to have truck beds.

Comment by bryanlarsen 33 minutes ago

Unlike electric cars, the price for a used F-150 lightning is still a substantial fraction of new price. There is still substantial demand.

Work trucks are a very different market than for passenger vehicles. Their usage is a lot more consistent and known. This means that electric works very well for some work trucks and very poorly for others.

The other aspect of work trucks is that they're generally purchased by very conservative businesses who don't want to buy the bleeding edge, they want several years of reliability data before committing. The F-150 Lightning was cancelled just as that data was starting to come in.

Of course, most F-150's are sold as passenger vehicles rather than work trucks. Along with almost all Cybertrucks.

Comment by crsv 37 minutes ago

I've only ever heard positive things from every electric truck owner I know and this is coming from a market that's very truck-forward in terms of culture.

Comment by maerF0x0 28 minutes ago

In my observations it appears there are 3 kinds of truck drivers.

1. People who need to haul stuff in the bed

2. People who need to tow stuff behind them

3. People who buy them for some form of self expression.

Electrics are probably fine for people in 1 & 3. But for 2 I have yet to find one that both tows and gets range.

Comment by eitally 21 minutes ago

I would suggest there are 4 kinds:

1. People who need them for work. 2. People who need to carry bulky loads 3. People who need to tow. 4. People who buy them for some form of self-expression.

The only real use case for electric trucks, imho, is construction site supervisors who do most around-town driving but may occasionally need to haul stuff. Their towing range is absolutely abysmal (F150 Lightning range dropped to about 90 miles when towing a moderate trailer!).

Comment by dilap 30 minutes ago

I definitely see them from time to time here in Austin loaded up with stuff being used as real work trucks. (But mostly not.)

Comment by mingus88 39 minutes ago

Truck brained people are notoriously stubborn. If it isn’t like daddy’s old truck they simply can’t see past it

I live in the PNW and you see people not using their trucks as trucks every single time you go out on the road. This includes urban areas.

I’ve owned an F150 and an R1T and for camping, overlanding, snow trips, etc the Rivian is hands down the most capable vehicle I have ever driven. You couldn’t pay me to go back to a Ford

Comment by snypher 33 minutes ago

We recently had a guy drive 146 miles out of the cascades, to Oregon City, to get a replacement radiator for a Jeep after a trailside wreck. We don't know how to fix a Rivian when it breaks down, or where to get parts.

Comment by alt227 3 minutes ago

That sounds like a you problem.

Comment by trollbridge 45 minutes ago

Given US pricing of $6.50 diesel, the cyber truck with 11,000 lb towing capacity actually makes a lot of sense.

It just looks too weird.

Comment by bluGill 39 minutes ago

People who are towing a lot may like the idea of electric. However they need range, and EVs when towing don't deliver. It is too bad, I'd like a electric truck, but when I tow I'm trying to get someplace and EVs don't deliver.

It doesn't help that nearly all chargers are arranged such that I'd block important parts of the parking lot for half an hour if I was towing when I needed a charge, then I have a complex back out (where something is behind me that I need to avoid). Most gas stations are designed so my trailer might block a pump from someone else using it but otherwise I'm not in the way.

Comment by mingus88 30 minutes ago

The range loss on an EV is comparable to the 5 MPG you are going to get with a 3/4 ton truck towing anything 10k pounds as well

The only actual difference is time you need to charge. Pull through charging stalls are ubiquitous where I live

And I just don’t know…how often are people towing loads over 100 miles regularly for this to be a problem? Where I live I see pavement princesses towing the occasional boat or landscapers towing gear and rocks.

Neither of those is going to max out the range on an EV truck in an average day

Comment by nozzlegear 40 minutes ago

The standard F-150 uses gasoline, not diesel. Not that gas isn't expensive right now either.

Comment by fooker 43 minutes ago

I have seen rivians being used as trucks pretty often in small towns.

Comment by soperj 44 minutes ago

I know people with Rivians and F-150 Lightnings and they love them.

Comment by trashb 35 minutes ago

Indeed that target audience (people that actually need trucks) should be looking at a diesel vw passat from the 00's instead.

Comment by seizethecheese 38 minutes ago

Truly terrible for pedestrians. Modern trucks are already death traps with their super high front grills, multiplying the weight compounds the problem.

Comment by richwater 38 minutes ago

F150 Lightning was ruined by the dealership network who had 0 interest or financial incentive to sell them. When they did sell them, they added huge markups.

The quality of the vehicle is actually quite high.

Comment by ballsac 21 minutes ago

[dead]

Comment by gnabgib 1 hour ago

Discussion (194 points, 240 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50391456

Comment by Barbing 1 hour ago

Comment by jdlyga 6 minutes ago

It was a great idea, and there's some amazing technology in it, but it's absolutely terrible implementation.

Comment by linesofcode 35 minutes ago

That’s unfortunate, I quite enjoyed the brutality of its aesthetic.

Comment by mahboi 17 minutes ago

I don't like the design but don't hate it either. At least the jaggedness is for a functional reason. There are uglier cars, about 10 of which are from Kia and Hyundai.

Comment by alt227 29 minutes ago

A lot of people did and thats a fine opinion to have, but be careful saying that around here you will get roasted for it.

Comment by adventured 18 minutes ago

There's nothing wrong with an interesting design. It's not a serious market however. The Cybertruck was a pet project forced onto the market by an out of control CEO (there's a large disconnect between Musk and the consequences of his actions). Tesla requires very high volume selling vehicles to prop up its comical market cap. The entire company is resting on one car model. They desperately need another highly successful model, the Cybertruck could never be that.

Frankly Tesla is dumb lucky the Europeans and Japanese have botched the EV market so badly overall. Tesla shouldn't even exist at this point with how trivial their lineup is.

Comment by alt227 14 minutes ago

All we said was some people like the design.

Comment by ribaspatel 45 minutes ago

The dimensions felt off to me. I had it as a loaner and enjoyed it a bit, especially since it had HW4. But I would never buy one.

The size is just too impractical. It would never fit in my garage. On top of that, the standby drain was significant. Just sitting idle, it would lose 10 to 20 miles of range.

Comment by firasd 53 minutes ago

I noticed that the cyberpunk wedge cars that inspired it are 2 seaters… maybe this shape isn't right for much larger cars?

DeLorean is the real life 80s reference of course, but in cyberpunk revival media like the coupe in Ghost in the Shell 2017, the spinner in Blade Runner 2049—those cars are all much smaller cabins than the cybertruck

Comment by aidenn0 17 minutes ago

The first two series of the Lotus Esprit had similar design language as well.

Comment by mpalczewski 40 minutes ago

I liked the styling. Thought about getting one. Got a chance to get in one the other day. and it was so uncomfortable. felt like sitting on a park bench. I thought this was supposed to be not a real pickup. Rather a suburban big old thing with blade runner styling and reviews said lots of comfort. No, just a big old vehicle, that's not even that roomy on the inside (hip room felt like that of my old integra), with the comfort of an 80's pick up. not much of a point to it.

Comment by throw03172019 15 minutes ago

I always stare at them and wonder who designed them. Hideous.

Comment by voxadam 1 hour ago

Comment by Dwedit 47 minutes ago

Disabling Javacsript lets you read the article already. There's no need to visit archive.today, where you participate in executing DDOS attacks against anyone who criticizes the site's creator.

Comment by j45 5 minutes ago

It's good to dare to try things more than a little different.

Who would think we could get satellite internet that works?

Comment by _fat_santa 32 minutes ago

I have very mixed feelings about the Cybertruck. Personally I absolutely hate it, it's just not my cup of tea and I would never in a million years buy one. However as a general lover of cars, I have to appreciate just how striking the design is and how it was a complete departure from pretty much any other car on the road.

There's nothing quite like the Cybertruck and I don't think there ever will be again.

Comment by faefox 48 minutes ago

Truly one of the most baffling stories in recent automotive history. All they had to do was make a normal pickup truck with Tesla tech. Hell, go ahead and use it as the testbed for 48V, steer-by-wire and whatever else if you want to - but the amount of time and money wasted to make what was in the end an absolute monstrosity that failed to deliver on any of its price, performance and range promises strains credulity. Cybertruck is the most visible inflection point marking Elon's descent into madness.

Comment by Kapura 54 minutes ago

Truly the peak of 2020s antisocial car design. The car looks designed to plow through other vehicles, barriers, and pedestrians without slowing down to count the bodies. "Bulletproof bodypanels" is only a selling point on a mass production car if you routinely piss people off enough to make them grab iron. Folks who need pickup trucks for the utility they provide have stuck with trucks that are actually fit for purpose. It was a way to signal to the world that you had extremely poor judgement and low standards.

Comment by barbecue_sauce 16 minutes ago

There are plenty of people who drive pickups because they like them, not because they fulfil a utilitarian purpose, and not all of them are assholes.

I would say the issue is more that there has been little to no progress in mainstream consumer car aesthetics in the past 25 years. It used to be that you could clearly tell a 50s car from a 60s car from a 70s car from an 80s car, etc. Everything from the past 25 years or so is pretty indistinguishable, so something comes along with a clear but possibly misguided aesthetic vision, its naturally going to appeal to some people.

Comment by trollbridge 43 minutes ago

In the real world it has fsd + non-fsd capabilities to immediately stop before hitting a pedestrian.

The steel chassis provides rigidity instead of a traditional frame. They ended up having to be flat, not curved, to meet the design goal.

I guess we all just want something that “looks like a pickup”, is heavy, and guzzles $7 a gallon diesel fuel

Comment by Kapura 39 minutes ago

modern cars are literally designed to deform on impact to keep the passengers safe. they're called "crumple zones" and they exist to dissipate kinetic energy to keep everybody involved safer. adding "more rigidity" isn't serving any meaningful purpose.

Comment by thrwfjauci2aa 11 minutes ago

Yeah, that totally explains how it got top honors from both major U.S. safety organizations.

Comment by mingus88 25 minutes ago

> I guess we all just want something that “looks like a pickup”, is heavy, and guzzles $7 a gallon diesel fuel

No actually the lightning and the R1T are pretty well loved by the people who took a chance on them

Comment by hn_submit 7 minutes ago

Why isn't Tesla responding to queries as to whether production will cease completely? Are they ignoring bad news and bad rap? Childish of them.

Tesla could simply come up with a more prevalent looking EV pick-up truck of course.

Comment by schiffern 1 hour ago

  >blaming the problem on the wrong type of glue, a new adhesive “not prone to environmental embrittlement.”
That quote was about the new glue, not the old glue?

  >some RWD Cybertruck owners merrily driving along could be disconcertingly overtaken by their own wheels.
If they read their own link, that never happened?

Who's doing the proofreading at Wired now? Is it all just AI?

Comment by CharlieDigital 54 minutes ago

    > If they read their own link, that never happened?
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/tesla-recalls-cybertru...

    > The issue stems from the brake rotors, and the report says more severe road conditions "may strain" the stud holes in the wheel rotor, causing cracks to form. If the cracks persist and worsen, it may result in the wheel detaching entirely.
https://autos.yahoo.com/ev-and-future-tech/articles/tesla-cy...

    > In a recent off-road escapade at the King of the Hammers event in Johnson Valley, California, a Tesla Cybertruck experienced a mechanical failure resulting in one of its wheels snapping off. The incident, captured over the weekend, has raised eyebrows about the durability of Tesla's much-touted electric truck.
I can't remember the specific video, but I recall seeing someone breakdown some of the poor materials/engineering choices for "truck" use cases and of the mass of the CT.

Found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scBKKHi7WQ

Comment by schiffern 37 minutes ago

  >off-road incident
So, big nothingburger.

Obviously the NHTSA ('Highway' is right in the name) doesn't care if you boulder-crawl and break your car. That's easy to do, in any car!

Boulder crawling typically involves heavily modified vehicles for a reason.

Comment by CharlieDigital 35 minutes ago

Read the recall link:

    > If the cracks persist and worsen, it may result in the wheel detaching entirely.
    > 
    > ...engineers determined that continued use under strain could eventually lead to separation of the wheel stud from the hub.
Watch the YT video.

Telsa made bad engineering choices on this vehicle. There's no point defending it.

Is it because your world view fractures with a fallible Musk?

Comment by gyanchawdhary 24 minutes ago

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Comment by gyanchawdhary 52 minutes ago

whatever this author writes should to be taken with a grain of salt ... i mean, he's paying his mortage and putting his kids thru school by professionally critiquing everything Elon does .. at leaat based on his wirted article history .. https://www.wired.com/story/how-tesla-made-its-new-230-mph-c... ..

Comment by dgacmu 26 minutes ago

That article seems to be fairly flattering of the technical tricks tesla used to make the demo roadster flip? Your claim about "paying his mortgage ... critiquing everything Elon does" is certainly not backed up by this citation. Dude clearly doesn't like the cybertruck, but to a first approximation, that pretty much describes everyone.

As someone who described himself in an earlier post as a "Big Elon fan boy", perhaps the source of bias here lies in a location other than the author of the WIRED article.

Comment by i_love_retros 1 minute ago

I always feel sorry for people who own cybertrucks. Or Teslas in general.

Comment by jrauser 34 minutes ago

I'm convinced that Elon made it just because he thought it would be funny. "Let's make a truck that looks like it came out of a 90s low-polygon video game! That'll be hilarious!" He never cared for one moment if it was actually a good product.

The poor people that bought them were the butt of his joke.

Comment by paularmstrong 32 minutes ago

No, he legitimately thought it was edgy and cool. He has the taste and desires of a 10 year old.

Comment by SoftTalker 23 minutes ago

The first Tesla was based on a Lotus Elise. It was stunningly good looking. It changed people's minds that an electric car had to look like a glorified golf cart.

Later cars from Tesla looked more generic but still like looked like regular cars.

The cybertruck seems like a throwback to the old electric cars that looked like something out of nerd's sketchbook.

Comment by win311fwg 30 minutes ago

Compared to other pickups on the road, he's not wrong. It wasn't a good design, but the competition isn't very fierce.

Comment by mingus88 23 minutes ago

The competition isn’t very fierce but he sure did squander his advantage in the EV segment to get beaten to market by a company that had never shipped an EV before

Rivian selling the first EV pickup truck even after Elon’s announcement of the cybertruck is pretty embarrassing

Comment by hbarka 35 minutes ago

I still remember the marketing for the Cybertruck. Tesla teased a partial neo-noir silhouette of the truck which had everyone guessing which part it belonged to. Childhood fantasies about Blade Runner designs were conjured in people’s imaginations. Fanboys were truly generous with the design expectations. Embarrassed to admit now, I did go to the unveiling and when it rolled out I thought this must be a gag and the real Blade Runner would follow any second now, only to realize that this ugly thing was it. If you could only see the collective shock amongst the attendees. Only the drunks were cheering. Then the boss had the designer throw a ball through the window. Twice.

(Edit: the actual designer had the assistant designer throw a ball through the window.)

Comment by Quitschquat 23 minutes ago

Money better spent on your roadster reservations.

Comment by kstrauser 1 hour ago

No Wired love for the Incel Camino? The Deplorean?

Comment by 41 minutes ago

Comment by craigmcnamara 14 minutes ago

I taught my now 4 year old that those are called dumpsters, so he very reliably says, "Hey Dad! A dumpster" whenever he sees one. The number of people he has loudly roasted while getting out of their dumpster is too high to count. Perhaps my proudest parenting achievement so far.

Comment by tamimio 18 minutes ago

Open source it entirely from parts to software, and let whoever wants to maintain it themselves to keep it.

Comment by 1970-01-01 1 hour ago

Unloved and unwanted is outright false. Go to cybertruckownersclub.com for a more balanced take. Somehow Wired managed to completely miss the best U-word description of it: Ugly.

Comment by InsidiousWombat 57 minutes ago

Just because someone likes a given piece of trash doesn't make it not a piece of trash

Comment by 1970-01-01 54 minutes ago

That's not how the ancient idiom goes..

Comment by bigstrat2003 31 minutes ago

But it does mean that the thing isn't "unloved and unwanted".

Comment by alt227 27 minutes ago

[dead]

Comment by method_capital 48 minutes ago

We need this person to tell us all what we should like!

I notice this internet world we live in, networked behind screens, really demonstrates the average person's drift to totalitarianism. It's frightening to me.

Comment by hbn 38 minutes ago

Just cause an internet blogger thinks something is trash doesn't make it trash.

Comment by trollbridge 42 minutes ago

I test drove one, liked it, had no intention to buy but asked what it would take to get one.

The answer was wait a long time since they’re sold out. Obviously someone wants them.

Comment by paularmstrong 31 minutes ago

But they didn't sell out. There were storage lots in Florida full of them. Were they falsely claiming demand and hiding away their stock?

Comment by kstrauser 23 minutes ago

The article says they sold about 12,000 in the first 3 quarters of this years. That’s about 1 per 30,000 Americans.

With numbers that small, any vagary of demand can lead to lots full of unsold vehicles or waiting lists.

Comment by 3 minutes ago

Comment by Kapura 59 minutes ago

>go to a forum for the owners club for a more balanced take

hilarious sentiment

Comment by 1970-01-01 55 minutes ago

Go look before you have a knee jerk reaction.

Comment by hbn 27 minutes ago

...yeah? You should get an opinion from people who use the product, not people who dislike the company's CEO for political reasons and their dislike of it was a foregone conclusion.

Comment by Grombobulous 6 minutes ago

Unfortunately not very many people use the product.

I’m sure there are passionate people over at the Mitsubishi mirage owners club as well.

We can’t blame political reasons for the Cybetruck failing, especially in the context of the Model Y and Y L selling like hotcakes.

No, the problem with the Cybertruck is the styling is polarizing in person, it came in overpriced and under-ranged, and it wasn’t built for a buyer demographic that exists in large numbers.

Slate understands truck buyer motivation and demographics a lot better than Tesla. Chevrolet with the Silverado EV understands much better what their buyer demographic for an EV truck needs to succeed (be a regular half-ton truck, get as much range while towing as possible). And those companies are still likely to struggle or are struggling to sell EV trucks, respectively.

If Tesla knew what they were doing they’d have made a true full-size 3 row SUV similar to the EV9, and they’d also make a city car for Europe. But they blew development money on a bespoke single-country truck.

Comment by howunfortunate 53 minutes ago

I mean owners are often quite regretful?

It's certainly more balanced than a forum of non-owners who's only knowledge about the issue is that they hate Elon with an undying passion.

Comment by jjuel 45 minutes ago

"There are dozens of us...DOZENS!"

Comment by cush 1 hour ago

Elon truly was inspired by Delorean

Comment by Zigurd 1 hour ago

That's disrespectful to a guy who made a nicer car and had a less destructive drug habit.

Comment by dylan604 40 minutes ago

In what way? That's a strained way to poke fun at someone just because.

Comment by jjuel 44 minutes ago

"That's gold, Jerry. Gold."

Comment by ramesh31 48 minutes ago

>"Elon truly was inspired by Delorean"

He wishes. Delorean is a modern classic, regardless of commercial success. Cybertruck will go down like the H1/H2; something entirely emblematic of the worst excesses in the time it was conceived and marketed in, that later generations will go "did they really think that was cool?".

Comment by linksnapzz 27 minutes ago

A modern classic, thanks to Bob Zemeckis; without whom it would've been right up there with the Bricklin SV-1.

Setting aside JohnZ's personal failings, the car and its production was a catastrophe.

Comment by mingus88 13 minutes ago

Hilariously the deloreon speedo didn’t even go up to 88

Comment by hypfer 40 minutes ago

I wonder if we will see less aggressive and generally hostile car designs in the future, now that public sentiment towards the tech oligarchs seems to have shifted.

Renault is designing cute things again, so that's a good development. So is Citroen, apparently?

So that's a good development

Comment by 31 minutes ago

Comment by nazgulsenpai 58 minutes ago

I have very little interest in electric vehicles, Tesla, Elon Musk, etc. But I still think the Cybertruck, at least the design, looks awesome. It looked like something you'd see in the "Another World" or "Out of this World" intro cinematic.

Comment by bredren 32 minutes ago

I also think the design is rad.

Doesn’t the new ~flying car have similar design vibes?

Comment by mrob 55 minutes ago

Agreed. I see it as the successor to the angular style of the Lamborghini Countach, which far more people are willing to admit looks cool.

Comment by whynotmaybe 52 minutes ago

Both look extremely cool to me but Elon's behaviour is the only reason I'll never buy a tesla. Even though the cybertruck looks awesome but it's impossible for me to be seen in this. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd used a cybertruck in a BTTF remake

Comment by trollbridge 41 minutes ago

Do you have the same concerns about the executives at Ford, Honda, etc?

I just find the moral grandstanding a bit off. The vehicle industry isn’t exactly a paragon of executive virtue

Comment by whynotmaybe 17 minutes ago

I haven't seen any other executive do a Nazi salute and some people won't buy a car based on the country of origin so I don't see why I can't dislike a brand because of its leader behaviour.

I don't know what the others think so I can't judge on that, but I can judge based of what Elon says and does.

And aside, Elon's been lying for years about everything and promising stuff Tesla can't deliver.

IMHO, there's a strong parallel between the Elisabeth Holmes/Theranos situation and Elon/Tesla.

Comment by kstrauser 19 minutes ago

I don’t recall seeing Ford spend $400M trying to influence the US elections. People have strong feelings about Elon, and only Elon, doing that.

Comment by toyg 43 minutes ago

The cultural element is the difference. It's a suburban vehicle who wants to pretend it's a truck, exactly like the pompous suburbanite assholes who want to pretend they are rugged alpha types just because they drive a truck they don't really need: both would fall apart in a minute when faced with real problems.

The Countach was just the usual Lamborghini luxury scam, and I say that as someone who grew up a few km from the factory. Nobody cared if it was kinda crap inside, because it existed just to look like a cool car. A truck is supposed to, y'know, be a truck.

Comment by giantrobot 46 minutes ago

Having seen both in person, a Countach actually looks cool. The Cybertruck looks like a shitty unused model from a PS1 game.

Just because something is "angular" doesn't mean it's in any way comparable to a Cybertruck.

Comment by laughing_man 54 minutes ago

For an "unwanted" truck, I sure see a lot of them on the road.

Comment by swaptr 56 minutes ago

As with most marketing gimmicks, they have little to no value outside of their insane marketing.

Comment by trollbridge 40 minutes ago

Used resale value is around $80,000.

Comment by tombert 37 minutes ago

I kept thinking the design was going to grow on me as I saw more of them on the road, but nope. I still think it looks unbelievably ugly. I do not think it looks like something that you'd see in Another World, it looks more like something I would have designed when I was fourteen playing with Lightwave.

Comment by iAMkenough 53 minutes ago

Personally, I think it looks like a silver dumpster.

To those that downvoted, I’m sorry my opinion offended you.

Comment by linksnapzz 17 minutes ago

There's someone near me who has one with a white wrap over it. I see it parked, and I thought:

"If Kenmore had the wherewithal to manufacture 4wd electric chest freezers...that's what they'd look like."

...but I'm not offended by it. I think that sort of whimsical craziness is all too often missing from modern durable goods, so I'm glad it got built.

I'm even happier that its existence upset mincing, peevish little eurotwee Conde-Nasty scribblequeefs like this Wired author. If it'd guarantee him leaping off of a tall pier, I'd pay MSRP for a Cybertruck.

Comment by Zigurd 39 minutes ago

A fugitive ice machine that escaped from Motel 6

Comment by x3haloed 37 minutes ago

I had a pre-order. The reason I canceled was because the delivered product had a lot less range and was much more expensive than previously announced.

There were other things that contributed to the decision, too: the announced "stressed skin" exoskeleton was panned in favor of adhering the body panels to the body with glue, it became clear that Tesla's profit and valuation were funding Elon's right-wing political project, and I would have preferred a solid-axle design.

The absurdity was not what was wrong with it. It's OK to be absurd. I really liked the stainless steel design. Less trail damage when off-roading and no need to worry about paint scratches causing body rust. The door wedge design? Meh. But it enabled the stainless steel body.

In the end, I want what the Cybertruck failed to deliver: a full-size electric pickup at a good price with excellent range. I currently have my eyes on the RAM REV. We'll see if that one gets axed, too.

Comment by adventured 25 minutes ago

All the clown show at Tesla had to do is clone the F-150. This was one of the easiest product failures to predict in recent memory. Musk can't help himself. Tesla continues to desperately need a Shotwell at the helm.

At present all Tesla has propping it up is bubble dust and one car model (one increasingly dated car model). Somehow after 14-15 years (Model S released in Summer 2012) these people still can't release a real SUV of any sort. The model Y is a grotesque joke of a fake SUV, a mutilated model 3 that doesn't really look like an SUV in any regard. The model Y is an SUV like the Cybertruck is a truck. They might as well have unlimited money to do it, and they can't do it. Same reason they couldn't release the roadster even after all this time. It's a fundamentally broken company because Musk won't get out of the way. Whatever Musk is good at it, it's not running a large scale automotive company.

Comment by robotresearcher 5 minutes ago

Whatever it is, the Model Y is the best selling vehicle model in the world.