We know what a world without work looks like

Posted by surprisetalk 2 hours ago

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Comments

Comment by em-bee 23 minutes ago

the article argues that work will no longer be economically necessary, and that we are capable of organizing ourselves into a community without the need to work for income.

but i disagree. even in the past those rich people had to maintain their wealth, so a lot of what they did was economically necessary.

so i don't think that the economics of work will go away. it will change, but not vanish.

there is a lot of work that should never be replaced by machines. raising children for example, but also caring for the sick, elderly and disabled. yes, some of it will be machine assisted. those will be machines that increase the independence of people. also art and entertainment, while it may use machines for assistance should remain firm in human hands. also government, laws, jurisprudence. science, research, tourism, etc...

much of it can be done machine assisted, but the human touch is not optional, and a good part of that work is still something that people may not want to do without some sort of reward.

today economic benefits are the reward for humans making an effort. in the past it may have been social status, but i don't think it is a good idea to go back to that. social status is what gives rise to prejudice and racism.

work will not go away. the economic necessity for everyone to work just to put food on the table, that may go away, but the need to motivate people to do work that machines can't do on their own will remain.

therefore what changes is the motivation. today people are motivated to study and work because they need an income. in a world where income is not strictly necessary society needs to make an effort to motivate the future generation to study and work on things we still need despite that.

money is the most egalitarian way to motivate people to do work that is hard but needs to be done. everything else brings us back to status and class, which is not what we want.

Comment by calldacopsidc 34 minutes ago

This was posted a week ago and I'll just reiterate what I said there..

As an American why should I believe a word of this, when our country's Overton window ranges from "lip service" to "open contempt" for the unemployed? How can I feel confidence for my economic future when, in less than a decade, the frontier AI labs have abandoned any semblance of caution and are embracing a lobby for fewer guardrails? When "move fast, break things" is applied to the "mass cognition replacement machine"?

Filing this entire article under "I'll believe it when I fucking see it". The pollyannic nonsense is willfully ignorant and only serves to excuse more concentration of wealth and the mass theft of leverage from the average worker.

Comment by wduquette 16 minutes ago

The point of the article isn't that we will have no need to work; that remains an open question. The body of the article is exploring previous societies or segments of society in which no one needed to have a job, and how they lived their lives, as a way of pondering what a post-work world would look like. It's not particular pollyannic in tone once you get past the opening paragraphs.

Comment by andyg_blog 1 hour ago

I don't think anyone would mind a society without work so much if there wasn't the threat of starvation and destitution there currently is.

Comment by subarctic 38 minutes ago

Reminds me of the mouse utopia studies i read about where the mice didn't have to work and there was plenty of food and water, no diseases etc and eventually everything got all messed up and the mice lost the ability to reproduce

Comment by watwut 18 minutes ago

Pet mouses have plenty of everything and reproduce a lot if you allow them.

Comment by mindslight 33 minutes ago

I like the article, but I'd say it has left out descriptions of those people who weren't in the social Matrices it described (either because they didn't want to be, like "one family who had moved out of the West End into an aging lower-middle-class town" or because they couldn't like those lower orders in "volunteer work is part of what separates them from the lower orders".

In fact I'd say that angst from this type of person (I consider myself one) is a good chunk vocalizing concerns about "a world without work". "Going your own way" is a large part of the American psyche, so what happens in a world where there is not work that needs to be done, which had been laying out straightforward paths for "your own way" ?

I'm personally not feeling too much of this angst, being both happy working on the kinds of physical things that aren't going to be automated away any time soon, and also having the engineering knowledge/skills to effectively use LLMs and benefit from the automation. But I'm also not looking so far into the future as to worry about those endeavors becoming trite.

Comment by em-bee 18 minutes ago

see also discussion from a week ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49616238