On non-rooted Android 17, ADB uninstall of system apps fails

Only a few politicians, some of whom happen to be currently in power, in the EU or elsewhere, are pushing for those agendas. But fortunately, they do not represent the majority.

These things wouldn't go away if the EU or a company within the EU would provide a phone OS.

They would just serve different masters.

Andy Rubin was no saint, on so many levels, but when he was removed from Android leadership and the Chrome culture effectively took over this was always how it was going to go.

The EU has enough tech talent to do it, but the political and managerial class lack both the strategic ability or the willingness to adequately reward the effort it would take, almost certainly preferring to, again, outsource the concern, and then be shocked Pikachu later.

Anyone doubting this should see how BMW think about their in car software. And that is for a supposedly premium product.

In practice they’re the same thing.

Links?

    > GrapheneOS supports device attestation (the non-google kind at least)

they also run a remote attestation proxy to a google attestation intermediary (doesn't really accomplish anything).

they unfortunately don't provide you with the option to disable the Android APIs that can be used to get a unique hardware identifier from your device (cryptographic identity burned into the silicon) with some extra steps. APIs such as remote attestation and DRM handshake initiation.

GrapheneOS literally has an app that uses attestation and isn't for "technofeudalist corporations".

https://attestation.app/about

And I'm not trying to be snarky, if that's the only thing, it's solvable right now. Everything else will work.

And concerning "you can't just buy a device and install is" - android and iOS are far more secure than any desktop os, and both pixel/iPhones are far more secure than any computer (or any other phone as well (we'll get the third one next year)). GrapheneOS actually explains "whys" in their hardware support faw section.

Generally maintaining an os is a hard work, so that perhaps explains why there's not many mature offerings.

What's stopping you from buying a phone, unlocking the bootloader, and flashing whatever ROM you want?

This is in practice only true of IBM PC compatibles these days, you really can't install any OS on modern Macs. Maybe you can on (some?) Chomebooks?

Mobile phones store incredibly intimate data and are incredibly vulnerable to seizure. It stores my message history, pictures I've taken, so many other records that together would provide an incredibly detailed view into my private life. And it is on my person at all times, even through checkpoints where I have minimal protections against search and seizure like borders! This is not a device that I want a broad surface for modification of system software on.

I think the decision of GrapheneOS to maintain the attestation features and not providing user root is what gives it a fighting chance of being accepted as legitimate 3rd choice. See: Revolut and others adding GrapheneOS keys and trusting their attestation

Like or not, for most users, having root access is a liability, especially with more and more important things being held on phones . Someone downloading a photo editing app and then having a rootkit installed in the background that waits to empty their bank account is not a workable situation.

Why not root has been explained many times and you actually either want the official image with no root exactly because of the benefits, or you want custom image because you don't need these benefits.

For location faking Mock location works on GOS,l.

I see much bigger problem with not having a reliable backup than not having root.

It's not anti-user if it doesn't add the features you want that would destroy the security of the OS.

It has many features that give the user more control. Like disabling emergency alerts, protecting your data from attackers, contact and storage scopes (lying to apps for more privacy while retaining functionality), sensors permission, network permission.

Because of Google's cartel-like structure where OEMs get more profit by joining, Google shares some revenue from screwing the user.

> postmarketOS and other projects are working tirelessly at bringing Linux to phones.

postmarketOS has ZERO partnerships with any OEM, their device support is "as is" and done by volunteers, not by vendors like Qualcomm or Mediatek.

> SailfishOS

This one is interesting, but currently the "Jolla Phone" can't be bought "right now", you can order for October..

I see some hope in Murena too, they partnered with Fairphone / Gigaset, so the device support is real there, but it's still Android..

Because to me it sounds like a cat and mouse game that Google and banking apps are destined to lose.

I mean, it really sucks that so many people have made themselves dependent on this crap, but at some point you just have to stop buying the poison or stop complaining that it makes you sick.

The poison to utility ratio has gotten so high that it’s getting increasingly attractive just to ditch the whole thing. You either have to draw the line or accept that there is no line, and that you will yield any degree of agency in exchange for convenience.

For so many people, big corporations decide what they will buy, where they will eat, who they will date, how they will interact, what they believe, where they will go, how they will get there.

Multiple choice is not choice. It is the illusion of choice in a fully packaged life.

I think GrapheneOS might have issues in the future considering that Android will be getting more and more locked down. People say GrapheneOS is the better OS when it just is hardened Android; it is doomed purely because of the Android base.

Perhaps a Linux based edition of GrapheneOS would do well, even if it will not have a lot of app compatibility. There's only so much patching you have to do to Android before it just becomes more work than good.

Despite it's name it can also block IPs and specific apps from connecting to specific servers. I use it to block all manufacturer and OEM related apps that I cannot uninstall through adb or disable. Very handy for blocking constant Chinese phone telemetry pings, as well as additional network level blocklists for ads (Pi-hole like), completely locally so you can trust it unlike a shady VPN.

I checked out your link; it seems to be a mailing list for a hosts file for telemetry? Why is there no option to just see the file without giving in my email? Not the most private.

It doesn't have to be named root, the point is that my device should act in my interest to the fullest extent permitted by the law.

But those running illegal monopolies no longer fear the user and blantantly ignore their choices (yes vs "remind me later" is a good example), if I can't enforce my choice, I don't own that.

I thought it was 24 hours OR use adb?

Perhaps the problem is our desire to have everything, no matter what the compromises are. Perhaps the problem is our inability to say, I'm going to go with product X even though it lacks Y because we actually own X. There is virtually no incentive for competition to pop up in such an environment since established companies have a lead of years, decades if you consider the size of the established companies, so consumers will follow their lead.

I don't mean to suggest that buying alternatives is a solution to the problem as a whole, but doing so may allow enough niche products to survive to give those of us who are interested in alternatives and alternative to choose from.