I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

This is somehow by intention. In the ramp-up of Android adoption, Vendors and carriers started to fork Android and deviate too much from the core. Google needed a leverage to tie them to stay compatible to the ecosystem, Google Mobile Services (GMS) was the tool to do so. "Pass the compatibility test suite and you qualify to preload GMS".

Then, at some point, Google implemented API's in the OS which call Google's cloud infrastructure (e.g. Location services), which they didn't want to commit to the Android source for the risk of them being forked and modified, so they started to implement them in a precompiled "Google Play Services" module.

Over time, it seems Google Play Services became the preferred vehicle for Google to rollout any kind of API-changes to have them applied on all devices immediately, without waiting for the vendor to do an OS-Upgrade.

The result is that Google now promotes Google Play Service API's as the way for the most widely compatible implementation of an app. Which is...not wrong, but in the larger picture also the reason why Android is not considered "real" open-source (anymore).

> The ideal outcome for me would be keeping Android but effectively dissolving Play Services

Agree. There is still a very good OS in there, clearly written by considerate SW-Engineers.

I have spent the past 2 years off and on modifying AOSP (for "reasons") and I am constantly amazed the poor quality of the code base and badly architected the overall system is.

It's a bunch of re-inventions of the wheel (start-up daemon manager, IPC, HAL, GUI, etc) with the "upper layers" written in Java with a mix of C/C++. Mixing the metaphor of a Java "run time environment" with a Linux-based kernel results in a hodepodge of pieces and having seen it up close it makes sense why "Android" user experience varies so much device to device.

Did Android need it's own bastardized libc for example (bionic)? Did Android need to have it's own start-up daemon manager? A "HAL" in C++ (wrapping Linux kernel capability) with a bunch of bridges to Java via JNI?

Writing an application for Android is also a byztantine mess of NDK, SDKs, Java build systems (Maven, Gradle, etc), XML files, Java, Kotlin, etc. Why can't icons just be SVGs, why do these have to be in some XML-formatted resource? The list goes on.

You could not design a worse system than Android, even if you tried to design the worst system possible

Wasn't the point of Play services to enable keeping OS "updated" regardless of the manufacturer schedule? Which is to say: they are tightly integrated because they were designed to be part of an operating system that Google can keep updated through Play Store even if the device OEM is slacking on porting upstream updates to the users.

Just no. I developed for android for a long time and I have seldomly seen a worse and more confusing SDK and code base. I can give you many examples but the core layouting algorithm having quadratic complexity with the number of widgets and the single base-view class having 60.000 lines of code are just the tip of the iceberg.

Permission model of Andorid is hostile to the user and is designed to the benefit of the manufacturer. It undermines the users' ability to take advantage of their computer but allows the manufacturer / whoever installed the system to have undue and unwarranted access to the device.

My experience of using Android is very similar to using a corporate laptop configured by the least competent IT department of a large US bank: you are not allowed to do the basic and useful things, you are required to jump through a lot of hoops to have the remaining absolutely necessary things done, you cannot eliminate hostile functionality, you cannot be sure your personal stuff will remain personal (if it ever was...), it's a system that will automatically do things to you that you don't want done...

Basically, using Android sends me back to the early 2000s when this kind of setup was typical for MS Windows computers given to employees in large US companies.

Imagine traveling somewhere, and run through the things you'll need to work without tinkering. Camera, eSIM, GPS/maps, more "exotic" messaging apps that for some reason people use instead of Whatsapp.

It seems like most Linux phones are barely suitable for someone that just goes home to work 99.999% of the time.

Also, you can use the bank's website for most tasks.

I think most non-techies could happily do this.

It's unfortunate that democracies foster a system of corporate corruption here.

I notice this often when I try to, say, use firefox and my bank says, sort of "nah, use chrome only". And they only ever assume people to use either OSX or windows; Linux is kind of forbidden in the sense of "won't support it". But often it does not need any support, those browser or OS checks are wrong to begin with.

says everyone, using chrome. sigh.

keyboard text prediction is no more complex than some of free/open AIs that we already see in the wild.

If google doesn't shut things down, then just continue to use AOSP, which is a fine open source OS for most people's use cases.

And all software is replicable.

Are you all seriously arguing/considering that the barrier is something like "innovation" or "UX" or "hard work at improving the OS?"

Like seriously?

Come on. By now we should know what actually happens. The entrenched carriers will fight tooth and nail to prevent this. That's the real threat. It will look like the above, but like e.g. Google lying about why it got rid of Google Reader, the real story will be "monopolies gonna monopolize."

Gaming, it is mostly Windows games via Proton, hardly any different from using MAME, FS-UAE, Amiberry,...

Graphics, most of the well known commercial packages for VFX, 3D modeling, visualisation, lack a Linux version.

Laptops, just two years ago I failed to make UEFI work with the myriad of distributions I tried out, unless booting from external USB drive, and even then there was the whole termal configuration.

And it seems to be that Google is increasingly regretting that decision and closing things down bit by bit, from Play store policy, all the Play services BS, to how they ship security patches, and now all the developer verification. Google discovers that it's easier to make money if they just control everything.

AFAIK, Camera (V4L) is also broken on main repo, to anyone else wondering.

Rooting is important so I can mock provide fake data for: location, other sensor data, contacts, files, etc that’s what’s a a truly owned device. He does what I say.

Not what the app wants. If apps says you can work only in location X my phone takes the app side instead of mine. That’s not mine.

I can’t copy this text or take screenshot because restrictions: fucking stupid. I’ll just take a photo with my second device (or output to usbc device that can record screen) and parse the text. My phone just made me waste my time. I still can do what I want, just extra hops. Because, again, is not truly my phone. Is an adversary to my daily use.

Anyway it’s a lost cause. The only hope is for ai to bypass their security and allow owners to truly own a device.

A non problem imho.

> run a desktop Linux distribution (or Windows for that matter) that supports mobile features (calling, SMS, and data)?

The above use ARM SoCs. Palm-sized x86 with cell modem? Doubt it.

At that point I think I might get one of those and use them as an everyday computing device (with Waydroid for Android apps) plus a small light Android phone for calling, tethering and locked down apps that do not work otherwise.

That's a bit of an oversimplification that makes this sound more concerning than it is. Not that it's 100% un-concerning, but I suggest that anyone concerned about this read the linked docs. It really was designed to be quite privacy preserving, though it's obviously a difficult challenge in this context.

You will need to turn off your Bluetooth if you want to stop advertising a rotating random number.

The only difference with the contact tracing is that a key, on the device, can correlate the ciphertext. I have it off because the utility was never demonstrated.

But app is not the hardest challenge compared to supporting all the hardware, camera, screens and the many core protocols

Next one will probably take a while, but be a relative hit.

Apparently, they produce the phones in batches, not sure when the next one is due?

I don't remember all the details but I had a Mac G3 around the same time I started using Linux: I don't remember the story about installing Linux no Mac hardware as being a particularly easy one.

Now I'm not saying that years after the fact, Linux wouldn't run fine on Intel Macs. But if I recall correctly it always has been a bit of a bumpy road.

An old smartphone or tablet can do that job and stay in a drawer at home 99% of the time.

I mean, if they can force Microsoft to support other browsers than IE6, then why can't they force banks?

Unfortunately, that's not an option for most people, the only choice is to complain - but not like there's any other option on the market that behaves better. Or there's some other drawback, or different UI to learn...

People can spend their money however they choose, but I wouldn’t spend $1800 on a phone like that if you want to actually use it as a phone. And before buying it as underpowered “portable” Linux computer (the battery life is not good even though I hear suspend mostly works now), this is still outrageously overpriced even by current hardware pricing.

Boards:

M.2 Modem Module China, inquire for USA/EU options

M.2 WiFi/BT Module India, inquire for more options

It's not going to win the market, but I applaud anyone providing more choices.

https://commodore.net/callback/

I figure supporting this effort is my little way to make a change in the world and help bring freedom back to our devices, which I now have :)

As soon as we get to a point that Linux on the phone works at all, I'm happy to switch completely.

Here, "it works" literally just means it works. Not "GPS doesn't work," "camera only half works," "interop with Android/iOS apps that you're forced to use doesn't work." That doesn't mean "it works." And of course "only works for 2-3 years and then the device gets abandoned" doesn't mean "it works" either.

I agree, it feels like trying to write a new browser from scratch.

> The best option would be to use /e/OS or GrapheneOS

I would highly recommend GrapheneOS (disclaimer: I used both for years).

I have a PinePhone. That was just a toy gadget and nothing of value as a daily driver. Another e-waste device.

I have a FuriLabs FLX1S. It is a complete pack that is mostly plug and play. The latest update improves a lot. Wayland layer works great for when you need to run an application that has no Linux equivalent, such as Kore. It still rough around the edges.

1) Chatty, SMS application, needs more features to better incorporate modern SMS communication protocols.

2) The phone dialer takes too long to start up.

3) The microSD path is hard-code so it does not play nice when being encrypted drive were /run path is used.

4) Gnome Files works better the the Index file manager but there is no proper tie-in for password management. This means you must enter your encrypted microSD password every time after a reboot.

5) Convergence station cannot handle an ultra-wide, 3440x1440, screen monitor.

6) Firefox has a buggy user experience were there is no way to hide the tabs listing or options popup from with-in the application. One must swipe out of the application into the desktop and go back to Firefox.

7) Some of the UI time out settings are too short. Such as watching a video in full screen mode. Press to show the controls and by the time you start engaging with them the controls auto-hide again.

8) Don't know of a way to export SMS history from Android and import to Linux.

Once it is a little more polished the FLXS1 will become my daily driver. It has become my Bluetooth music player. I also use it more than my actual phone daily.

Temporary. The age of LLM aided development is current.

In my specific case, I couldn't use Pixels because the terrible PWM on the screen was painful to me. Bought a cheap Motorola G Power 2024 with an IPS screen. Never logged into Google. Used Obtanium and FDroid for most things. Used Aurora for the one Play-only app that I needed. Running Netguard (a non-root firewall) with a whitelist so almost nothing phones home. Deleted or disabled almost all the non-essential built-in apps.

I like the Moto but wouldn't recommend it due to the lack of OS updates. But this setup could be easily duplicated on almost any Android without needing root or roms.

The have an unlocked bootloader and are the only phones supported by GrapheneOS [1].

If you don't want to go to GrapheneOS, any Android phone should be able to use F-Droid.

[1] https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices

AOSP doesn't even include a functional keyboard nor a proper call manager nowadays

Oh, you linked to Fairphone 4, let's see:

- battery: partial

- audio: partial

- camera: partial

- fingerprint: broken

postmarketOS device support is a joke, they couldn't even get ONE vendor to support the OS..

"The mobile linux space isn't exactly looking good right now, but it holds some promise. Ubuntu Touch managed to survive being abandoned by Canonical, and postmarket is still seeing good development even if not having great hardware adapation at the moment."