What went wrong with data lakes? A 15-year reality check
Posted by alvis 1 day ago
Comments
Comment by dejobaan 1 day ago
The article suggests (sensibly!) that the right thing to do is to actually go in and design what's being logged with purpose (i.e., everything should answer a known question). But I don't always know what I'm looking for when I'm testing a thing. At the risk of using LLMs as a hammer that hammers everything, I wonder if they'd help with that problem?
I've pointed Codex at Posthog logs, for instance, and it's been able to say, "yeah, well, look at this pile of residential proxies hitting your site." I wonder if it'd similarly be able to say, "hey, I notice a pattern where everyone who picks the Cleric class stops playing after level 3"?
Comment by inigyou 12 hours ago
Comment by johsole 1 day ago
Comment by mycall 16 hours ago
Comment by rolymath 1 day ago
How does it know that?
Comment by roryirvine 21 hours ago
It's not even the hallucinations that are the biggest problem, it's more that they're so bad at managing their context windows that they end up ignoring huge chunks of the data without realising that they're doing it. You end up with a result that looks plausible but is often extremely misleading.
A better approach seems to be getting the LLM to write code to use more traditional analysis techniques (eg. iterative k-means, or whatever). That way you can at least be confident that you've looked at all the data rather than just a small slice of it.
Comment by capplexham 1 day ago
When ELT became the corporate "Strategy", Extract-Load was technically easy and had a lot of Big Data evangelism and exuberance behind it. The money flowed easily at the beginning, but budgets aren't unlimited and corporate knowledge isn't easy to retain. So Data Lakes became Swamps of just Extract-Load, and business users were told to transform the data themselves.
As someone who lived through it for 12 years at an Insurance company, I like to think of it as ETL becoming Extract-Load-GoFuckYourself.
Comment by RaftPeople 14 hours ago
It wasn't exactly the shift from ETL to ELT, it was the stated goal of putting "T" on read with no intermediate schema.
In my experience, it's always (since way before data lakes) been a multi-step process and I don't know how it's even possible to do the data lake strategy without re-creating a ton of transforms over and over:
1-Extract
2-Possibly do some transforms early due to specific operational/technical reasons
3-Load - even before "ELT" became a term, load without transform was happening due to constraints, like the transforms requiring data from separate operational systems to even be possible
4-Transform 1 - Foundational stuff like converting unique operational schemas (due to technical or functional reasons) into more natural schemas, easier processing in later steps
5-Transform 2 - Unifying core data that spans multiple operational systems (e.g. order fulfillment txn appears naturally in different systems but for different/overlapping business reasons and with some differences in identifiers and attributes)
6-Transform 3 - First pass at foundational target state
7-Transform 4 - Possibly more, or possibly not
8-Consume valuable data
Comment by trueno 22 hours ago
not much of a dbt nerd myself but sql is at least a language analysts understand, so if they go peep dynamic tables / materialized views on whats transforming the data they can get a wrangle on it. this requires no expertise in file movement and threading and surrounding whatever, the business nerds can stay business nerding and influence and at some orgs have the latitude to control the materialization logic without needing to be an engineer. it's a much better fit since analysts tend to be closer to business needs.
i dont mind blasting data in blob storage. theres a couple use cases where the "lake" thing works out, extending a postgres db to read the same data store via pglake (or duckdb + ducklake) is actually pretty slick. i build some apps that also have report pages that do some pretty heavy analytics. powerbi is effectively dead to me now.
where i think it all went wrong is literally just nomenclature. such stupid namings in the space, self importance galore. datalake is already dumb, theres ten trillion more terribly named things in the "data engineering" space, and this was an era that was largely swamped by linkedin/medium/enshittification (we got snowflake astroturfing their own subreddit trying to get people to pay for their dumb cortex ai) so data engineering is really hard to take seriously sometimes. not to mention the existence of what i consider blip in history saas services like fivetran (still not sure how these guys are still in business). it was a career step towards software for me, but looking back it is a pretty funny space shrouded in too many services and licensing. one finds it hard not to champion for postgres, duckdb, etc.
with that said, data lakes have been ridiculously effective at my last org. moving engineering full time into real time replication lords and having a whole warehouse full of everything you can possibly need enabled even greater heights for us. integrations got to just delta system vs system and true them up on 1-5 minute schedules with literally just a job that runs a select from some view which does the delta compare. doesnt sound like much but when you work at one of those dumb orgs that pays for like 75 different platforms, suddenly it started only taking us days to onboard and wire in a whole platform into the fold at the org and build out middlewares, it's actually hilarious. all of that is possible because of data lakes for the most part, though we didn't always do the "lake" thing and just materialized stuff into tables. being able to make live reporting from just about every system and bring data together acrossed many systems actually insulates us from hemmorhaging way too much money on stupid shit like salesforce and a new erp. you get to buy best in class platforms for whatever function and then your erp is just.. a damn multipage app. all that was possible with our datalake constantly having data dumped into it and going thru the infamous and inevitable end game pipeline: the road to reporting
Comment by icedchai 1 day ago
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Comment by analog31 1 day ago
Comment by mint5 1 day ago
Regardless of whether their criticism is factual, it’s absurd to use a direct competitors assessment of the competing tech as a credible source!
If you do that in the opening paragraphs of your paper, it’s wrecked all credibility for everything that follows.
Comment by harrouet 22 hours ago
The paper is actually poor in data and mostly requotes other studies.
Comment by louiereederson 1 day ago