LLMs reward expertise
Posted by MaxMussio 2 hours ago
Comments
Comment by neilv 1 hour ago
You could read some general reference/guide/tutorial documentation on CSS, and then probably solve your problem (without searching for "how to center a div", or whatever your exact problem was, and copy&pasting the answer and moving on), also becoming more knowledgeable in the process.
The rest of the short blog post has some good points, but the first sentence sounds like it's targeted at the percentage of developers who did StackOverflow copy&paste to close Jira tickets, never becoming experts.
Delegating to LLM-ish AI is just a natural evolution of that. The question is whether they can still add value if kept in the loop.
The article author suggests that the answer is to be expert, and is addressing people who... "either rely on a skilled colleague or just hope that the answer to your exact problem was out there on the internet."
Comment by keeda 5 minutes ago
In fact, I never enjoyed frontend programming because it was such a pain to deal with matters I considered trivial yet so frustratingly hard to do right... like centering a div. And yet the slightest misalignment is visually jarring and forces me to get a bit OCD about fixing it, which made it even more frustrating.
I questioned the whole premise of the situation: is working around a bad developer experience something worth spending my time on? Unless I actively wanted to get in there and fix the situation, not really. So yes, in those cases I would outsource my problem to a colleague or StackOverflow and move on. And as a career choice, I preferred to do more backend dev.
I would posit that that was the type of expertise that did not matter. The type of expertise that really matters here is good UI design. That is entirely orthogonal to the drudgery that is implementing and debugging webpage rendering, and I am eternally grateful to LLMs for freeing us from it.
You can extend that line of thought to the entire article. What really matters (and what LLMs reward) is domain expertise rather than technical expertise.
Comment by petcat 59 minutes ago
Hours + Hours of reading and a lot of trial-and-error. The loop was so long and sooo slow. Now it's instant. As if your very first Google search just solved the problem for you immediately.
Comment by Jtarii 5 minutes ago
Having to read through a structured resource describing something to figure something out has intrinsic value that an LLM is not going to provide you with.
Comment by dymk 52 seconds ago
Comment by bumblehean 57 minutes ago
But that's how you learn...
Comment by marssaxman 3 minutes ago
Comment by nonethewiser 27 minutes ago
Comment by petcat 53 minutes ago
Comment by cure_42 4 minutes ago
The people who make the tools that generate your assembly instructions need to learn it. Just like the people who make the browser rendering engine and push CSS forward still need to learn it.
The people who don't need to learn asm never needed to learn it. If you wouldn't code in asm now, you wouldn't have ever.
This " logic" is so irrational.
Comment by limitedmage 26 minutes ago
Comment by ericd 14 minutes ago
Comment by jazzyb 2 minutes ago
Comment by willsmith72 14 minutes ago
the generalists win overall, except of course for specific cases where specialists are great
Comment by kibwen 50 minutes ago
Comment by nonethewiser 29 minutes ago
Comment by petcat 43 minutes ago
We've all accepted that code-generation has been required and accepted for decades.
Comment by __d 26 minutes ago
Comment by petcat 18 minutes ago
https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?chfield=%5BBug%20cr
I count 500+ of them.
Comment by a2ff6eeb0 23 minutes ago
You could probably replace me with a minimum wage worker to do some manual testing and copy-paste errors from the console into the LLM, and still be fine.
Let's see how long it is before the next round of layoffs, I guess. For now, the money's fine and the work's boring but ok.
But, no, the LLMs rewarding expertise line is pure cope. Software is not really skilled labor any more.
Comment by david-gpu 54 minutes ago
Comment by sega_sai 47 minutes ago
Comment by lionkor 55 minutes ago
Comment by petcat 50 minutes ago
No, of course not. Because all of that got abstracted to higher-level instructions decades ago.
Comment by hvs 45 minutes ago
Comment by petcat 26 minutes ago
I want a green lawn and big bushy shrubs in front of my house. Do I need to know the intricate biology of my soil and habitat? No, of course not. I just do the surface-level things that make the lawn and shrubs thrive.
Comment by Johnny555 19 minutes ago
And others want the green lawn and big bushy shrubs, but don't want to learn all of the surface level things to make their lawn thrive so they hire a service to do it for them. And there's nothing wrong with that - not everyone enjoys the yard work, but they still want the thriving lawn and shrubs... and they are happy to write a check to OpenAI... err...Lawn Doctor every month to get that result since the time they save by not dealing with their lawn, they can pursue things they do want to do.
Not everyone wants to (or needs to) learn every detail along the way of getting the results they want.
Comment by NegativeLatency 32 minutes ago
It's very useful that there's an intermediary that knows how that stuff works so I can build things without thinking about it in excruciating detail the whole time, I can dip down lower and learn stuff when it's relevant (like cache access and nested arrays) but I can also not do that in many situations.
There's also the argument that you can do engineering without understanding the underlying science as seen in th pyramids, the beautiful old european churches, etc
Comment by nonethewiser 24 minutes ago
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Comment by hgoel 31 minutes ago
Comment by Jtarii 1 minute ago
Comment by nonethewiser 26 minutes ago
Comment by bonoboTP 1 hour ago
Comment by Avicebron 55 minutes ago
I'm fairly certain the article is directed at professionals, or at least the AI companies are basing their valuations off of directly taking a slice of that professional "productivity".
Comment by henryfjordan 47 minutes ago
The example math is boundary-pushing and definitely not a solved problem. But most of us work on CRUD backends with a React frontend. Those are more or less solved problems that have well-documented solutions. For those kinds of tasks, LLMs just reward usage.
I can count on one hand the number of times in my career I've needed to solve a problem that's not described on Stack Overflow.
Comment by hahahaa 52 minutes ago
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Comment by zuzululu 32 minutes ago
Comment by j45 1 hour ago
An expert can lay a different kind of frame to prevent the llm to fell out of its way of being generally too verbose, and that can transfer as well to code generation and complication.
Comment by nullsanity 1 hour ago
Comment by sramsay 1 hour ago
Comment by QuercusMax 1 hour ago
Comment by Austiiiiii 37 minutes ago
I'm inclined to say that this matches my own experience, but I can't rule out confirmation bias on my part.
As a meticulous person generally looking for a very specific code outcome, I prompt in a way intended to get exactly the thing I have in mind, and my results reflect that. But on the other hand, I have coworkers who type ten-word prompts with very limited specificity, and they seem to get results that way as well, and that makes me wonder.
It would certainly be beneficial for my career and financial well-being for the assertion to be true, because it means I don't have to worry about being pushed out of my job by an army of $15/hr vibe coders. But the convenience of that assumption is exactly why I think it's important to be skeptical.
Comment by postalcoder 1 hour ago
"suppose you’ve gotta resolve the $CONJECTURE, like absolutely have to, everything depends on it. think really hard, and try to come up with a bunch of ideas to try. but remember to trust yourself and not necessarily in conventional wisdom!!"
https://claude.ai/share/25740bd5-aa97-4bd7-bf58-c4df3793fda7
https://xcancel.com/__alpoge__/status/2083855298239078748
Tao's chat was for him to gain intuition, not to solve the problem from the outset.What's funny is that every other person gets a different conclusion about who these models reward/empower. I've seen people say that the generalist stands to gain the most and others say that it's the experts. Like all of life, maybe the "winner" is the person who just does stuff.
Comment by bonoboTP 1 hour ago
But at the top of top, the gap probably widens. A professional F1 driver will drive laps around some random guy. It amplifies reflexes etc, because at that speed little differences in timing make a big difference.
Now, AI coding isn't exactly analogous, but I think it also has these two regimes. It flattens things for simple tasks. If your task is to shovel data, do some trivial compiler wrangling staring at badly designed error messages, looking through GitHub issues hunting for the comment with many tadaa emojis to fix an issue etc, those things can now be done by anyone. Just as grandpa can also drive to the grocery store. But if you're pushing at things on a higher level, now only your above-AI ability matters. If all the things that AI can do well are subtracted out, how much other expertise do you have left? This will be proportionally a bigger and bigger difference between different people.
Comment by foolswisdom 1 hour ago
Comment by jkhdigital 15 minutes ago
Comment by gr_norm 10 minutes ago
I am tempted to say (uncharitably) that the 'No knowledge needed! Just add LLMs!' byline is wishful thinking by non-experts who do not want to confront the reality that they will ultimately need to learn things.
Comment by atleastoptimal 1 hour ago
Expertise is needed to evaluate model outputs where it can't verify itself, or at the very least one's expertise can help steer the model in the right direction.
However this is irrelevant if models themselves are better at evaluating/leveraging expertise/information.
Comment by colechristensen 1 hour ago
This includes things like "before you start fixing this bug, write two tests that fail proving it exists".
Expertise is good, but a wise expert will set up methods for the machine to prove to itself that a desired result is achieved removing the expert from the tight development loop.
Comment by natsucks 1 hour ago
Comment by fragmede 1 hour ago
Tao's chat was fascinating because the questions he was asking belied expert knowledge of the subject that only a handful of people could have asked.
Comment by porphyra 1 hour ago
The counterexample of the Dinitz-Garg-Goemans conjecture was basically just "keep going" and finally "enough of partial results. now finish with a complete unconditional counterexample"
https://x.com/DmitryRybin1/status/2079904005652893709
https://chatgpt.com/share/6a60b2eb-0b64-83ee-9c76-7931ca1de0...
Comment by colechristensen 1 hour ago
The low hanging fruit will run short. Ultimately mathematics is a field of subjective selections of problems and proofs as beautiful and interesting. Machines absolutely will struggle with what to study, what theorems are desirable, and when do be done with a proof.
Comment by bonoboTP 1 hour ago
And why do you think this would be the case? I'm not talking about today but in 1-2 years. For reference o1 was released less than 2 years ago, and we've had reasonable coding agents for 9 months or so.
Comment by colechristensen 38 minutes ago
Mathematics is ultimately an aesthetic pursuit. Outside of a well defined goal ML models don't have any sense of taste and regardless of the scaling that's been enabled in the last year or so of capability if they haven't memorized the process of doing something they have the same limitations of inability to make choices about unknowns not trained into them.
Real synthetic intelligence seems to me to be still very far away and not a matter of making models bigger or more efficient.
Comment by davidw 1 hour ago
The easy, straightforward answer is "the people who own the models". Who else benefits feels like a more complex question and we'll have to see...
Comment by antonvs 1 hour ago
Someone who just does stuff still has to be able to deal with errors and failures. That’s where an expert or a generalist may have an advantage.
Comment by budsniffer952 1 hour ago
Comment by _dwt 1 hour ago
(Sorry, I'm in a crappy mood, but what on Earth are we supposed to take away from this? Everyone who disagrees with you is secretly an idiot, or worse, they're smart enough to know they're idiots but too proud to admit it?)
On a more helpful note, I think your "confusion" if honest can probably be resolved by realizing that "skeptics" are not a monolith.
Comment by bonoboTP 1 hour ago
Then you saw how other people used Google, by filling the search bar with utterly irrelevant words, missing the one key word that's most important to what they are trying to do, then not be able to evaluate the returned search results and triage for which is most "solution-shaped", and they get drawn into wrong search hits, reading a clearly irrelevant page instead of quickly backing out to the search results page to try another page etc.
Or see how people couldn't formulate questions on StackOverflow, other than dumping a huge code chunk and saying "it doesn't work".
Now, AI makes these easier. You can now really just type natural language into the textbox, not just key words, you don't have to know about quote marks and plus signs etc. You can paste the code and say it doesn't work, and the AI just might actually spot a bug.
But having general problem solving common sense will still give you very good dividends.
Comment by ofjcihen 1 hour ago
Maybe the answer is more along the lines of “people are using them for different things and getting different results”?
Why does it have to be snark and “these people must be stupid”
Comment by Terr_ 1 hour ago
Comment by bonoboTP 1 hour ago
The other day someone complained here on HN that AI failed to optimize his code speed. Turns out he just pasted in the code, didn't use an agentic harness with end-to-end benchmarking ability for the model to ground its changes in and to hill-climb on. But even as a human you need to test your hypotheses and measure things, and sometimes something you thought would help actually makes it slower.
It happens over and over, but it's no skin off my nose. If they don't want to learn to use it, it's on them.
Comment by randysalami 1 hour ago
Finally, we train our LLMs on who we are. Another reinforcement of biases.
Comment by nullsanity 1 hour ago
Comment by bashtoni 1 hour ago
If you don't know where you're going or how to get there, or even if you're just not paying enough attention, it will get you very far in the wrong direction before you've realised.
Comment by bob1029 50 minutes ago
The information system required to encode the aesthetic preferences needed to make a technology experience not suck is likely in excess of what any near-term solution will offer. Knowing when to say "no" is perhaps the most important skill here. You can't just say it arbitrarily either. You really have to mean it and be willing to fight other humans for it.
Comment by abixb 54 minutes ago
People who (carefully) use it as an extension of their own mind and senses will very likely thrive, and those who use it as a replacement for their minds and their senses will struggle.
One of the Claude skills I made Claude itself generate was the 'learning a concept across tiers' skill -- from ELI5 level to a PhD level, and it triggers whenever I ask it a very general question on a complex topic that isn't my bread-and-butter. The fact that I'm able to choose explanation level from a super smart LLM (that's available 24x7) that can explain any topic under the sun would've been mind-bogglingly sci-fi-ish just 4 years ago in 2022.
Comment by travisgriggs 1 hour ago
Where my angst comes, is worrying that no one will ever get that experience anymore. They might have had some eventual success, who knows what monstrosity a much less guided LLM would have done, but experential learning may be mostly a thing of the past. And it creates a real tension between the person with experience and the person without.
Comment by zmmmmm 1 hour ago
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Comment by petres 1 hour ago
But how I am observing is different, though. Since LLMs the gap between experts and non-experts has been shrinking. And yes, there is still a gap, but vanishing.
Comment by inventor7777 36 minutes ago
Of course, simple common sense and extremely basic Googling on unfamiliar subjects can produce similar results, but it's much faster if you are truly understanding what the AI is suggesting.
Comment by porphyra 1 hour ago
https://x.com/DmitryRybin1/status/2079904005652893709
https://chatgpt.com/share/6a60b2eb-0b64-83ee-9c76-7931ca1de0...
Comment by k__ 1 hour ago
Comment by Swizec 1 hour ago
I've seen this at work (as eng manager/lead/principal/whoevenknowsanymore) – all the big APIs give you stats. We see how much people burn in tokens and we know how much output they produce. There is a pretty strong inverse correlation between token burn and output.
The more tokens people burn, the less likely they are to produce a good outcome.
Comment by yearesadpeople 1 hour ago
Comment by kwakubiney 57 minutes ago
Comment by michaelchisari 41 minutes ago
Skills will have to be built through artificial constraints. Pen & paper, reading books, not using AI, etc.
Comment by lionkor 51 minutes ago
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Comment by kwakubiney 48 minutes ago
Comment by jselysianeagle 25 minutes ago
IMHO, the people who genuinely desire to learn will trudge through whatever they need to in order to grow their understanding - be it through reading books, original research papers or what have you.
If, OTOH, all you seek is the answers and that alone is satisfying to you, then of course you simply will not be motivated to do it the old school way anyway. But that's hardly different now in the age of AI.
Comment by boron1006 1 hour ago
In my experience (scientific programming) AI is a giant multiplier for people with specialized knowledge.
But it’s also a giant devaluer for that same knowledge as people with no idea what they’re doing can clog the field with plausible bullshit.
It’s now the case that if someone tells me they’ve done something, and I look into it and find out it’s completely AI slop, then I will have spent more time on the project than the person who “made” it. The situation is completely untenable and only serves to drain time and resources from people with better things to do.
Comment by theredleft 1 hour ago
this will have educational consequences (that I'm trying to solve). I don't think that we can adjust without rapid education and making extreme specialists of us all.
This requires coordination, certification, licensing, and other tiers of authenticity. False experts can ruin sample gathering, can ruin training. False expertise is exemplified by the current American Administration. Look at Robert F. Kennedy Jr.; he's a false expert. He is responsible for the measles outbreak. He is responsible for ivermectin abuse by humans. False expertise is overtaking real expertise. And the results are continuously disastrous and large-scale.
Comment by erelong 1 hour ago
Comment by pianopatrick 1 hour ago
Like I read there was a time when teams of people + AI could beat pure AI at chess. But that these days, pure AI wins.
For all the things people say about "how AI works" you have to add the missing piece "how current AI works".
Comment by asdfman123 1 hour ago
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Comment by nevi-me 1 hour ago
I don't think Tao's style works with everyone/thing, especially if we don't know what style he's tuned his LLM on.
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Comment by cyberax 1 hour ago
> For to every one who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
Comment by walrus01 2 hours ago
Comment by bonoboTP 1 hour ago
Now, the key is, that while rambling without structure, you do have to drop the key facts into your speech, and you have to know what you're talking about in at least a good portion of it.
I think people are afraid of doing it, because it seems "not the right way" or "not scientific" or whatnot. They want to believe there is some magic to writing the right prompt. So let me tell you, it works.
Comment by walrus01 1 hour ago
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Comment by champagnepapi 1 hour ago
- https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/mar/20/meta-ai-a...
- https://tech.yahoo.com/articles/ai-code-wreaked-havoc-amazon...
- https://alexeyondata.substack.com/p/how-i-dropped-our-produc...
We can only hope that engineers working in safety critical systems haven't fallen to these working conditions.
Comment by icameron 59 minutes ago
Comment by thewebguyd 1 hour ago
Comment by tsunamifury 1 hour ago
Specificity matters to LLMs a lot.
Comment by selimfedakar 1 hour ago