AI's debt binge can't last, hidden borrowing reaches $1.65T
Posted by mapping365 3 hours ago
Comments
Comment by missedthecue 2 hours ago
Comment by darth_avocado 1 hour ago
Sorry to break it to you but you are neither immune nor a bystander to the fortunes of AI going down. You are part of it all whether you like it or not.
Comment by missedthecue 1 hour ago
Comment by rwz 31 minutes ago
Comment by thrance 20 minutes ago
The financial crash that will happen as the result of the AI speculation bubble popping will be the exact same. You won't see Altman or Dario on the streets, that's for sure.
Comment by bdangubic 1 hour ago
Comment by msandford 1 hour ago
I'd love to live in a world where AI firms bidding these things up doesn't affect me but I'm really struggling to understand how they aren't impacting the market.
Comment by nancyminusone 1 hour ago
Comment by msandford 1 hour ago
Just because I'm too poor to own stocks doesn't mean stock prices don't affect me. That's indirect exposure not direct exposure.
Comment by DeluluDon 33 minutes ago
You're never too poor to own stock.
Comment by boelboel 1 hour ago
Comment by jujube3 54 minutes ago
Comment by vouaobrasil 1 hour ago
Comment by boelboel 42 minutes ago
My grandpa who fits these descriptions doesn't have a landline/phone (and never had one) yet he's affected by computers when he has to interact with banks or healthcare, he also holds quite some tech stocks.
Comment by XenophileJKO 1 hour ago
We have only begun to extract the value of commoditized intelligence. Sure there are arguments on local models and pricing power.. but I think we will be compute constrained for the near future.
Comment by scarlehoff 1 hour ago
Comment by echelon 1 hour ago
Journalists have been eager to call AI "over" since 2022, and yet:
- Models just got good at writing code this year
- Models just got good at editing images last year
- Models just got good at cinematic video this year
This hasn't even played out. It hasn't even started.
Why on earth would this be the end?
The robotics story is just getting started, too.
I literally do not write code anymore.
Comment by infecto 1 hour ago
Comment by sroussey 1 hour ago
If any one of these happens, or two, or all three, then the loans for trillions will become worthless while the use of AI can explode. The relationship between cost and ai intelligence output need not be linear over time, which is absolutely what the people financing are assuming.
Personally, I think linear over 5 years is about right, but no longer than that.
Comment by mrec 1 hour ago
Comment by goatlover 1 hour ago
Rather than it being presented as productivity tool for enhancing human labor and activity, it's presented as an eventual god that will radically transform the rules of economics and everything else, and thus it needs to be forced into everything. That's absurd hype and with it all the absurd VC funding and valuation. Thus it's seen as a huge financial bubble.
Comment by mapping365 1 hour ago
Comment by infecto 1 hour ago
Absolutely lots of hype but there is lots of value behind generated (unlike crypto) and we are still very early. This is what I was pointing at. There are folks on very extreme both sides, you are a good example, and I happen to believe it’s probably somewhere in the middle.
Comment by margalabargala 1 hour ago
This could happen this year or next, assuming you're willing to pay $30k for the hardware.
Comment by echelon 1 hour ago
- Fable
- Seedance
- Nano Banana / GPT Image
- Kimi
- ChatGPT
These tools are 80-90% of my day now.
Google Search? Meh. Chrome? Eh. Mac or Linux? Honestly just input devices now.
The models are the hottest thing in the world.
I am getting so much done. If I told myself from two years ago the progress these models would have made, I wouldn't have believed it.
Comment by dom96 1 hour ago
That's not correct, is it? Opus 4.5 came out in Nov 2025. Some might say models were good at coding even before that.
Comment by chasd00 1 hour ago
I think other industries are use to being continually disrupted by advances in technology and so will adapt easier and faster. Which again, is kind of ironic..
(i am a dev myself but it still makes me laugh)
Comment by SpicyLemonZest 1 hour ago
Comment by XenophileJKO 31 minutes ago
Here is probably one of the more clear examples. A model trained on video and also robotic simulation/recording (probably ensembled with control systems/mobility models) will likely be at the core of how robots make decisions and plan.
https://deepmind.google/blog/gemini-robotics-2-brings-whole-...
This is way outside my area of expertise though. I've only dabbled in more classic robotics and control systems, but these multi-modal sequence to sequence models are highly adaptive and can effectively transfer learning across very different domains.
Comment by cyanydeez 1 hour ago
Comment by cindyllm 17 minutes ago
Comment by goatlover 1 hour ago
Similarly, majority of people still don't 3D-print stuff they can get cheaply at Walmart or from Amazon. Or use VR/AR as their primary form of interaction.
Comment by WarmWash 1 hour ago
I too would use "plenty" rather than look at the horribly depressing stats.
Comment by dan_sbl 1 hour ago
Basically, 80% of sales are still brick-and-mortar. That doesn't seem very depressing?
Comment by goatlover 1 hour ago
Comment by Razengan 1 hour ago
One thing's for certain: There's no way anyone who's come close to Sauron's Ring (made actual use of AI) wants to part with it :')
Comment by pydry 1 hour ago
Comment by kube-system 2 hours ago
Comment by TYPE_FASTER 41 minutes ago
Yeah, this is what I'm thinking. New ways of productizing the technology are still be defined as people are using it. The pricing models are evolving in real-time as the providers figure out what the market will bear.
Comment by xyzsparetimexyz 1 hour ago
Comment by whall6 1 hour ago
Comment by techblueberry 1 hour ago
Comment by rybosworld 1 hour ago
Ever since the 2008 housing crisis, people have been predicting the next bubble-burst/black-swan event.
The one that really crushed the markets was the one almost body saw coming: Covid-19.
Comment by kube-system 1 hour ago
Comment by rybosworld 1 hour ago
Tulips, 1929, Dotcom, Great Recession, 2010's Flash Crash - none of these were in the public discussion before they happened.
Comment by kube-system 1 hour ago
The "public discussion" is a whole different thing. They weren't in the public discussion because macroeconomic theory isn't something mom and pop like to chat about on the weekend. They only become dinner-table discussion topics when the impacts hit main street, after they happen. But bubbles in recent history have been pretty reliably identified beforehand:
https://web.archive.org/web/20180330001927/https://www.barro...
https://www.economist.com/special-report/2005/06/16/in-come-...
It isn't hard for economists to find bubbles, where the market is taking on high levels of risk. What is downright near impossible to do is predict what specific event will cause the dominos to begin dropping, or when it will happen.
Comment by rybosworld 1 hour ago
Anecdotally, I have family who don't follow the stock market at all and are talking about the "AI Bubble" that's about to pop.
Comment by kube-system 1 hour ago
Comment by gloryjulio 1 hour ago
That's why timing the crash is hard. The market has to agree with you but also at the right time
Comment by axus 1 hour ago
Comment by rybosworld 1 hour ago
Comment by runarberg 1 hour ago
The only people who didn’t see it coming were the capitalists who were invested in the inflated market, and had bought into pseudo-scientific economic theories that served the single purpose of affirming what the capitalists already believed.
Comment by jml7c5 5 minutes ago
Comment by rybosworld 28 minutes ago
There's a very good reason a book (and movie) like The Big Short was such a big hit. It's because it was about the handful of people who actually saw the crash coming and were confident enough to put their money and reputation on the line.
Comment by runarberg 17 minutes ago
Comment by chasd00 1 hour ago
Comment by ninkendo 1 hour ago
Although at its peak, CSCO was up ~2500% in a 5-year period, whereas NVDA is “only” up ~1000% in a similar timeframe.
Comment by tehjoker 1 hour ago
Comment by bobanrocky 2 hours ago
Comment by mapping365 1 hour ago
Comment by afry1 1 hour ago
Fiber and railroads don't need tens of billions of dollars in continuing yearly maintenance expenses to keep them from going stale.
Comment by defgeneric 1 hour ago
Comment by horticulturist 5 minutes ago
Comment by bravetraveler 2 hours ago
For those without accounts, given faded body
Comment by WarmWash 1 hour ago
Comment by analognoise 19 minutes ago
Comment by bix6 2 hours ago
Comment by WarmWash 1 hour ago
A lot of publications pay attention to that.
A lot of people love reading things (often only reading things) that make then feel right/correct/justified.
A lot of publications live or die on ad views.
And just like that we have a viable media business model!
Comment by functionmouse 1 hour ago
Comment by billywhizz 1 hour ago
Comment by dgellow 2 hours ago
FWIW Enron was also a „sophisticated company“ at the time
Comment by mschuster91 1 hour ago
There's an old WSB saying: the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. The AI craze is that but on 'roids.
> These are incredibly sophisticated companies so presumably they wouldn’t let themselves get into a company ending bind.
The problem is, company C-levels don't care about the long term health of the company. They only think about next quarter (in a misguided interpretation of "shareholder duty/fiduciary duty") and their bonuses tied to their KPIs.
> But what are the chances this is actually an MBS type situation where the system is truly overloaded and a few sacrificial lambs are needed?
The system definitely is overloaded to hell and beyond after well over a decade of ZIRP. That money never got deflated out of the system in a healthy way and now everything is looking to fall apart.
Unfortunately, such events are already "priced in". VC essentially is built on 1 of 100 investments striking it big and 99 going bust. A market correction won't hurt the big guys, but it will definitely hurt all the small guys.
Comment by gradus_ad 1 hour ago
Comment by coliveira 1 hour ago
We need to stop thinking that just because they have money they're incredibly sophisticated. We have a few examples like Mark Zuckerberg, who had early success with FB, but he seems to be incapable of investing in profitable products. E. Musk: great at selling his companies, but laughably bad at making profits at the same level of expenses. Sam Altman: never had a real job he did well other than raising money. This is the kind of people that control these companies.
Comment by kzzzznot 1 hour ago
Comment by cavemandaveman 1 hour ago
NVDA had the foresight two decades ago to invest in CUDA. That's not next quarter thinking.
Comment by chasd00 1 hour ago
eh trolling for clicks. It's just not on the balance sheet (if i have my terms correct) so you have to look in a different report to find the numbers. If it was truly hidden then discovery of the debt would trigger lawsuits from investors. Major investors know about it already that's why no one is getting upset over it except for laymen. btw, laymen in the stock market (retail investors) just serve as red meat or cannon fodder for actual traders with real money and real information.
edit: there will def. be significant winners and losers, the stakes are very high and the dollar amounts are very large.
Comment by runarberg 1 hour ago
Comment by buredoranna 1 hour ago
Now if the number was ?? and labeled "undisclosed"... that would present a more serious problem.
Comment by seizethecheese 2 hours ago
Headline doesn't really match the facts in the article. The article seems to say "hyperscalers are borrowing an enormous amount and so far people are lending to them. Other people are worried that this will stop".
Comment by billywhizz 1 hour ago
Comment by kube-system 2 hours ago
You say this as if when "lending stops", it isn't a big deal. What you're describing is a concern for a collapse in finance markets.
Comment by bigbuppo 2 hours ago
My future's so bright I gotta' wear million dollar shades.
Comment by cmiles8 1 hour ago
The Wall St vs Silicon Valley showdown that’s setting up here looks like it will be quite epic. If last week was any preview, get your popcorn ready.
Comment by nemothekid 1 hour ago
Comment by cmiles8 1 hour ago
Pure play companies, startups, and investors are looking a lot less safe. For example there are other pure plays where debt service alone is like 25-30% of revenue, which is just insane numbers. There are also many investors and funds with extremely precarious positions in AI that are at risk of unraveling with a bang like we saw last week.
Comment by qaq 1 hour ago
Comment by jgalt212 43 minutes ago
Comment by georgemcbay 2 hours ago
Comment by ccvannorman 2 hours ago
chuckle
Comment by rvz 1 hour ago
Still no credible long term solution to the so-called "UBI" for all and the abundance fantasies and the utopia that was supposedly "promised".
Comment by metalliqaz 1 hour ago
Comment by minimaltom 1 hour ago
That setup isnt true for the US, not even close.
Comment by mannanj 1 hour ago
Any historical precedent for this all occurring together with technological hype/fast growth?
Comment by 3738838383 2 hours ago
Comment by kube-system 2 hours ago
> And unlike earlier periods of heavy debt, the Federal Reserve is no longer a big buyer of Treasuries, placing a heavy burden on private-sector investors.
Comment by iAMkenough 2 hours ago
Comment by kube-system 1 hour ago
You may have seen the headline recently where Sec. Bessent held up a mockup of a bill printed out on a regular sheet of letter paper[0], and there's bill circulating to change the law, but it will not pass[1].
0: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1536/cpsprodpb/97ed/live/f6126...
1: https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/1761
Comment by iAMkenough 1 hour ago
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-mint-produces-a-1-...
Comment by natebc 1 hour ago
Comment by ChrisArchitect 1 hour ago