Dubious research tied to Red Bull has shaped energy drink policy

You're describing caffeine addiction. This also happens with coffee.

People at the office sometimes ask me how I manage to get up in the morning and be in a good mood without having a cup of coffee. I suspect that most of them are only in a bad mood after waking up because they have mild caffeine widthrawal.

Feeling miserable for three days seems ... unlikely after 800mg/day of caffeine. I say that to mean, it should be much longer (been there, done that, took many months) Caffeine use especially at that level massively grows the amount adenosine receptors your brain has, and they don't just disappear overnight.

A 500ml Diet Coke (assuming you don't mean the caffeine free version) also contains about 65 mg of caffeine, which is the same as an espresso. I'm not sure if you really quit. Caffeine is also in a surprisingly large amount of soft drinks you wouldn't expect.

I swore off energy drinks in high school after someone brought a case of them on the bus to a football game and I drank one and got horrible diarrhea and had to shit in the woods at halftime.

I like energy drinks, but I prefer coffee. I drink my coffee black. About the only time I drink an energy drink for these past few years is when driving long distances. I don't like the chemicals used in sugar free sodas/energy drinks, and I don't like consuming a lot of unnecessary sugar, I also really like the flavor of properly prepared coffee. I go through phases, but I generally just have 1-2 cups in the morning and that's it, but when I'm driving I might have 3-5 energy drinks over the course of 8-10 hours of driving. I understand the appeal, but it's just never hooked me the way people talk about them.

Consuming that much caffeine is terrible for your heart.

If you find yourself consuming a lot of caffeine regularly, you would probably be much better served by Adderall. You can get the same stimulant effect with much less wear and tear on your body. If you want to put it to the test without breaking the law or going through the hassle of getting a prescription, you can try taking 1 or 2 Sudafed (the real stuff that requires ID), which I've found to be functionally equivalent to a low dose of Adderall.

(The normal caveats about health risks of stimulants apply to this comment - avoid if you have a heart condition, etc.)

I make my own all natural energy drink. I too don’t like coffee much, no matter how hard I’ve tried, but also those things have a lot of chemicals other than caffeine in them.

You can buy powdered caffeine derived from green tea. I do bottling including my own sodas so I have ready access and you might have to buy at least 1 lb, which is a lot of caffeine, but it’s worth it for your health.

I don’t drink more than 200mg in a day and usually not even that much so maybe I’m at a gram a week-ish. So a lb would last me for over 8 years.

Get a jewelers scale and you’re good to go

> Those suckers are bizarrely addictive

Caffeine and sugar, both are addictive.

For me personally, I find sugar much harder to drop, than caffeine. I wonder how it is for other people.

> I quit energy drinks cold turkey

https://wondermark.com/c/389/

coke etc will destroy your teeth, if not cleaned off regularly.

( don't "ask me how i know" ! )

I mean, you could say the same thing about coffee.

> made in Buckfast Abbey by an order of Benedictine monks.

Historically, yes, but after they lost their license to sell wine (a century ago) they licensed the name to a drinks business that scaled production up and changed the recipe.

I'm personally a much bigger fan of Vin Mariani. It's a wine made with cocaine alkaloids and endorsed by the pope. Unfortunately not as popular as it was in 1863...

I am with you here, especially given that the examples listed in the article were basically:

* Some young man downed 6 beers and "several" energy drinks, then dove into a lake, and subsequently died. His mother said that he grew up near a lake and a was a good swimmer, so their conclusion was to blame energy drinks.

* An 18 year old woman downed 10 jagerbombs (a mix of jagermeister liquor and an energy drink) and subsequently had multiple cardiac arrests. The conclusion, again, was that it happened due to some unique properties of energy drinks, and not the fact that she consumed an equivalent of 10 energy drinks+10 shots of hard liquor in a short timespan. Too much of almost anything is bad, and I have no idea what other outcome was expected here after consuming crazy amounts of liquor and caffeine like this.

* A 17 year old man died from alcohol poisoning after mixing alcohol and energy drinks (unspecified amounts of each), and that's somehow the fault of energy drinks instead of alcohol.

I am just baffled that they couldn't find more convincing examples, given how they claimed it was such a serious and prevalent issue.

It's cultural.

Rave kids who listen to melodic dubstep drink Ghost because they like everything brightly-colored and artificial. Good ole' boys blowing stuff up in the woods drink Bucked Up or Rip It because they work hard and want something grab-and-go from Wal-Mart. Gamers love Bawls (or whatever the equivalent is now) because it tastes refreshing and keeps them up all night at LAN parties.

Coffee is for sophisticates who do yoga and listen to NPR and pay taxes and have jobs. It's unprocessed (drying, roasting, and fermenting be damned) whereas energy drinks are made in a factory. How would you rather imbibe your psychoactive insecticide: the natural way? Or the ARTIFICIAL way?!

Side note (as a guy with single origin beans in his freezer and an Aeropress): AMP Energy slapped and they should bring it back.

To me the surprising thing is how much sugar people are willing to drink, but I think the same thing when my friend drinks Coca Cola.

I drink black coffee, no sugar

I'm not "going nuts" over energy drinks, but the key ingredient is not caffeine, it is sugar

The evidence has been mounting for decades, sugary drinks are devastating public health

Monster has roughly the same amount of caffeine per volume as black coffee but their standard size is 16oz which is a huge cup of undiluted coffee.

  Monster Energy 16oz cans
  Original Green Monster: 160 mg
  Monster Ultra / Zero Sugar: 150 mg
  Monster Lo-Carb: 140 mg

  Starbucks Brewed coffee
  Pike Place Roast: Short 155 mg, Tall 235 mg, Grande 310  mg, Venti 410 mg.
  Blonde Roast: Short 180 mg, Tall 270 mg, Grande 360 mg, Venti 475 mg.
  Dark Roast: Short 130 mg, Tall 195 mg, Grande 260 mg, Venti 340 mg.
  Decaf Pike Place: Short 15 mg, Tall 20 mg, Grande 25 mg, Venti 30 mg.

  Starbucks espresso is 150 mg per standard double shot, so e.g. a grande caramel macchiato is 150 mg for 16oz of liquid, just like the monster energy drink can.

  (In case you don't know, Grande, aka 16oz, is the most popular drink size at Starbucks, and short isn't even shown visibly on the menu.)

>> then you look at the ingredients list and it's like >> - Water - Sugar - Vitamin B - Caffeine

I'm drinking a sugar-free Monster at the moment. The list is way longer than that. It also contains citric acid, erythritol, taurine, sodium citrate, natural & artificial flavors, L-carnitine L-tartrate, sucralose, sorbic acid, benzoic acid, ester gum, acesulfame potassium, inositol.

Red Bull is a triumph of marketing over... well, everything else. It's not just, from TFA:

  For more than a decade, Red Bull paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for university professors to conduct research that has been favorable to the energy drink industry

it goes back well before that. It comes in a small can so it must be more potent than everyone else's sugary fizz, it costs more than everyone else's sugary fizz so it must be better, it tastes like ass so there must be some health or energy benefit to it, and taurine is about to be banned because it's so... so... well something, so get it now. Its success has been the subject of numerous studies by psychologists and behavioral economists.

The reason why drinks mixing caffeine and alcohol have often been banned is that, in studies not funded by Red Bull, there's a clear connection between that and higher car accident and sexual assault rates.

A can of Monster is actually closer to two typical cups of coffee (usually a bit under 100mg vs 160mg). Though that doesn't change the point being made; nobody would blink at "I drink two cups of coffee most mornings". The various B vitamins also help avoid the jitters that caffeine can cause.

I would say that's a very sugarcoated version of the Monster energy drink ingredients list[1]. The real list is ten time longer than the ingredients list of a cup of black filter coffee. And one of the items is "natural flavors", which could be hiding a long list of things all by itself.

[1] https://nutritionandingredients.com/monster-energy-drinks-in...

ingredients aside, coffee tastes somewhat natural whereas most energy drinks taste like liquid sweet tarts. I have never had one and felt remotely like it might be healthy.

You are also cutting out preservatives, additives, sucralose, dyes and whatever else is in the long ingredient list.

It depends on the drink, but there's often a lot more than those ingredients. The caffeine, while the same as what's in coffee per ml, you are looking at 600ml at a minimum for most of these drinks meaning you 2 cups of coffee for every serving.

Make a 12 oz cup of coffee and put 37g of sugar in it(12 of those little sugar packets at some restaurants). You will get weird looks too.

I think if college kids got really into espresso martinis you'd see a lot of pearl clutching there too.

Whenever I stumble upon articles such as this one, I always just mentally swap the words energy drink with "two coffees and a multivitamin" (or even "one coffee and a multivitamin" if we're talking about a Red Bull) and then the whole article just seems silly.

I have ADHD and noticed an INVERSE effect of caffeine for years, it would mostly just make me tired. That was before being properly medicated with a stimulant. After that, caffeine works the same as anyone else. It’s very weird.

In the internet age, I’ve learned this is pretty common for people with adhd.

I have 6 or so years experience with serious running, and experienced a runners high exactly 1 time.

I must be strange because I feel no effect from coffee until I drink too much which is when my heart beats too fast for too long and I feel anxious

Energy drinks on the other hand ? The taste sucks but they do work and give me what I guess most people get from coffee ? They make me sharp and pumped up

I'd get runner's high sometimes. If you got it, you'd know it. Personally, I only recall it happening for me at end of treadmill and erg and dumbbells session, not on any of the many runs on streets/waterfront/tracks.

The afterglow isn't confused with feeling good about completing exercise, or accomplishment/confidence. Example of confidence: when on a track, I'd run until I felt like I was out of steam, then sprint the last half-lap, just to know I could do that. (Don't try this if your heart isn't currently conditioned for it.)

I've given up caffeine, and hardly ever miss it.

One problem is caffeine for me seems to shift energy around, not create it. It might make me more energetic right now, but then headachey and ugh later. Also creates a dependence: "I feel like crap; I must need more caffeine".

Can also interfere with sleep many hours later, and sleep is super-important. It upsets GI a bit. And personally it seems to magnify some emotions, and, when caffeinated, I will somehow always find a cause of something that needs someone to fight for it (it's uncanny).

I care enough without chemically boosting things. And I'm fortunate to naturally be energetic and sharp without caffeine.

I don't drink even decaf anymore, because it still has too much.

IIRC, detoxing from caffeeine cold-turkey takes a couple weeks. Or zero-caffeine herbal/fruit teas can help with the warm mug of hot liquids ritual substitute. And exercise, hydration, nutrition, and good sleep.

Same. I've been told I'm a "high metabolizer". I can drink a cup of coffee/tea/soda before bed and pass out. No noticable effect.

It's weird that you mention the runner's high, too. I've run 6 miles 3x a week for months on end (PR of 8.5 miles), and I have no idea what other runners are talking about. I've never put the two together before.

The runner's high I've experienced comes after completing a long, hard race and finally getting to rest after pushing myself beyond what training was like.

lol. sounds like it’s time to get diagnosed.

[dead]

It absolutely is. Gambling made legal overnight, exploding into a mega industry? Nah take a look at this scary Red Bull!

I could believe the UK might try to ban selling coffee to under 21s too at the current rate, honestly. There's probably at least one study about stunting growth with coffee?

Well, are either of those sold in cans and marketed to children?

I have had personal health experiences related to them and quit them over twenty years ago before any of this hype.

My understanding is that part of the problem with mixing caffine with alcohol is that it can prevent someone from passing out; which is the body's defense mechanism against alcohol poisoning.

From that perspective I think that an argument could be made that restricting caffinated alcohol is regulating substances with known health risks.

Full disclosure: I like vodka Redbulls. So I'm not saying this like I'm someone who is moral panicking.

Vodka Red Bull always seemed crazy to me. Caffeine lasts like 6 hours so I drink one at 2 am, what the hell am I doing! Granted people do cocaine so maybe it’s inconsequential.

Drinking some coffee at 6 and 10 though before a night out, good move. Where I am, the nights can go to 4 or 6 easily.

long live 4 loco

Different than coffee?

feels like it wouldn't change behavior all that much just choice of the drug

On the one hand it’s nonsense, as you imply.

On the other, ‘energy’ drinks can often have far more sugar and caffeine than e.g. tea or coffee, and are obviously marketed heavily at young people, who can then find themselves consuming unhealthy amounts and/or forming addictions.

So it’s not really a particular drink in moderation that’s a problem per se, but everything else that comes with it.

can you point me to any research?

The problem with rational decisionmaking is there are vast areas where only irrational opinions are acceptable. Try the same line of logical reasoning for vaccines, low fat high carb diets, statins, uncontrolled immigration, various economic policies, and let us know how long until you get wrongthink attacks. There are vast irrational areas of discussion where even the faintest hint of rationality is double plus ungood.

What health effects compared to other caffeine sources (pills, coffee)

I haven't really noticed any, or heard much studies that wouldn't apply to similar amounts of coffee at least. Do the other supplemented ingredients add a lot of harm?

> The best case is it does no harm.

No it’s not. The best case it gives you energy (it’s in the name!) to do whatever you want and it does no harm.

Assuming it actually does no harm, why wouldn’t you want more energy any time you want it, any time you drink some delicious fizzy neon green liquid?

I’m saying this as someone who doesn’t drink energy drink (because I assume and feel that it actually causes harm, not because I couldn’t use some extra boost in energy sometimes).

>The best case is it does no harm.

Isn't it pretty obvious that people drink them for... energy?

> so I’m a bit odd I guess

No. You, and I, are sensible....

People can make up their own minds as to whether they are willing to take the risks, but first they must be given accurate information. It is important to know if the studies that say something is safe has been funded by the industries that profit from it.

It sure is our business if companies are misappropriating science to sell harmful products or advertize harmful misuse of their products.

Say it louder for the folks in the back! I drink monsters on ocasion, there was a time I was drinking one a day.

And it was exclusivelly people who couldn't go without multiple cups of coffe a day telling me how it's so much worse and how bad its going to be.

Yes I am aware energy drinks are not the healthiest choice of drink. But you could say the same for anything that isn't water or naturally blended juice. Besides everything is bad in excess.

But it's my body, I get to choose what and how much of it I consume!

Speak for yourself, I love the taste of taurine. Plus there's something strangely satisfying about the taste of a standard diet Red Bull. There's no attempt at natural flavoring there: you can rightly tell God had no part in making it.

But besides that, energy drinks are an easy consistent way of getting exact amounts of caffeine. I drink pre-workout before gym days for that exact reason since it's a lot easy to get 200mg of caffine via one cold 10oz drink than trying to brew and chug two hot coffees at 8am.

Plus occasionally there's non caffeinated benefits; the Monster Rehab line really does seem to help in the morning after a night of hard drinking.

>Please ... don't just write "it tastes good" ... no it don't.

taste is subjective. i dont drink them often, but i enjoy a can of original green monster occasionally because i find it tastes good.

I use on-the-go packets of energy drink powder that I drop into a small plastic bag when I travel. This allows me to have access to tasty caffeine anywhere I have water because I bring a bottle. Coffee does not offer the convenience or portability that energy drinks do.

I suppose I could bring instant coffee and drink it at room temperature or cold, but that seems sub-optimal.

I used to just carry caffeine pills with me, but people thought I was some kind of drug addict.

You can't ask someone why they like something more while just denying the most common, subjective reason. I don't like coffee because in my opinion it does not taste good. A peach red bull tastes just better in my opinion. Also, two things can taste good for a person at the same time. I like my energy drink which is easily accessible in my fridge but when I am out and a bout a fresh strawberry, banana or any other fresh fruit is of course better.

I drink Celsius. Not every day, but here and there. Also coffee.

So, a real answer instead of "it doesn't"

- It doesn't taste like coffee. Relatively flavorful, but obviously a bit on the artificial side

- I drink a Celsius when I am targeting minimal stomach disruption (e.g. before a run or before intensive cardio)

- I drink a Celsius when I don't want to wait for the coffee-maker during early morning hours.

- I drink Celsius if I run out of creamer (for coffee), something I don't need anyways but I like.

- Cold brew is acceptable substitute if I don't have a Celsius.

- Normal brewed coffee otherwise.

Coffee gives me heartburn and acid reflux.

Energy drinks don’t.

Tea does fuck all for me caffeine wise unless I drink a full ass thermos of it. Mate kinda works but drinking it is a performance and a process.

I asked a coworker who gave a few reasons. It's easier/cheaper to buy in bulk. He gets them by the case. He also like sweet flavors more than bitter flavors.

I drink, sugar-free Red Bull and monster ultra.

They are consistent. They are cold. They are fast.

There is none of the variation that you have in a single cup of coffee.

The preparation process is pulling a tab. No French press, no aero press, no coffee maker, scale, grinder, bags.

They don’t warm me up, I don’t have to cool them down.

I can carry them with me and drink them when I feel like drinking them without needing to worry about them leaking.

They don’t stain clothes. Or teeth (but they do eat them)

They lack the biological enzyme that coffee has that causes you to rush to the toilet. Any bowel effect is purely from the caffeine and not the passengers that come along in coffee.

I like the colors and designs.

I don’t have to feel like I’m participating in massive Third World exploitation to enjoy caffeine.

Black coffee tastes bad, so it requires milk and sugar, but I like to avoid drinking my calories.

The powdered fast stuff taste like shit.

You never know what beans public places are using and if you’re even getting enough caffeine for your needs.

<jk> Coffee doesn’t give you wings. </jk>

> Please ... don't just write "it tastes good" ... no it don't.

How do you not know that different things taste good to different people?

It’s faster.

Coffee is very strong in taste and is like a wrecking ball in your mouth.

Habit. Been drinking Red Bull or Monster since I was a teen. In my mid 30s now.

Because I dislike the taste of coffee and people look at you weirdly when you pull out a 1 kg bag of caffeine and a portable precision scale.

I drink both coffee (no sweetener) and Monster Ultra, because I like both. Although I prefer coffee.

red bull doesn't taste great personally but most flavors of monster actually do to me. and they're less bitter than coffee and carbonated, which is nice.

Because they taste better than bitter dirt water.