Keychron announces first open-source firmware for gaming mice

Posted by JLO64 5 days ago

Comments

Comment by jchw 5 days ago

A bit ago I accidentally bought a Keychron keyboard that didn't have QMK support, but then found that someone had ported it anyway, and I was able to flash it and fix some problems I had (the main one being that it seems like the default firmware only scans a single row of keys while asleep, possibly to save energy, but I want any keypress to wake the computer.) Maybe it's not perfect, but the community around open source keyboard firmware is great, it's a good example of how open source is beneficial for end users, especially power users.

And, in an era where vendor software and firmware for all kinds of devices is constantly having vulnerabilities, it is possible the liability of doing custom shit will eventually outweigh whatever benefits hardware companies seem to think it has, versus just having industry standards and free software instead. But, maybe that is wishful thinking.

My only complaint with Keychron is that of 5 or so keyboards I've owned from them I wound up having to resolder 3 different hotswap sockets on 2 different keyboards right out of the box. That is... Not a fantastic failure rate. OTOH, they are otherwise an unambiguously great value, with materials and build quality that feels pretty impressive for the cost, QC issues notwithstanding.

Comment by stasomatic 4 days ago

I think that Keychron is a meme brand surfing on the long tail of custom drops. I have a couple of them a Q1 Pro something, a K* whatever. They are just decent keyboards, a middle of the road. The constant accidental invocation of flashing lights is annoying and then you have to cycle through the presets. Not unique enough for geeks. Their marketing is good.

My Moonlander is gathering dust, can't find time to put it up on Ebay. Bought it 3 years ago, used for a week. QWERTY is hard to quit. I like the EPOMAKER Magicforce Smart2 68-Key layout [0] . No QMK, but I get by with Karabiner, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0836T2Y17

Comment by manaskarekar 4 days ago

You can disable the invocation of the lights.

Fn + L + Light button for 6 seconds for the K series.

YMMV depending on the exact model.

https://keychronsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052...

Their low profile keyboards are unmatched IMHO. Nothing has hit the balance that they have.

Comment by gadams999 4 days ago

You need a cape! And my bad for not RTFMing or searching their site. All three of my K series now blissfully dark. Thank you kind person.

Comment by snapplebobapple 4 days ago

Also their he magnetic sensor keyboards are awesome especially for the price

Comment by gausswho 4 days ago

approaches manaskarekar with slow deliberate steps

stands before manaskarekar

clasps manaskarekar upon both shoulders

gazes into manaskarekar

softly smiles and subtly nods at manaskarekar

releases clasp and worm-dances back into the desert

Comment by ZiiS 4 days ago

Keycron are middle of the road decent keyboards, but they are priced much lower then other comparable ones. This makes them much more then a meme brand.

Comment by snapplebobapple 4 days ago

This is why i buy them. With the latest keyboards putting the usbc port on the left side *n a protected sunken enclosure they got good enough to use at wotk and i now have 70 or so of them deployed there to nearly uniformly rave reviews

Comment by stasomatic 4 days ago

Perhaps "meme" was a wrong choice of words. What I wanted to say, I think, is that they are overrepresented in review coverage than they deserve. Good for them, they are decent keyboards, I didn't say they weren't.

Comment by omcnoe 4 days ago

Their low profile keyboards are some of the best available. "Standard" full size mechanical keyboards is a a pretty crowded market with literally thousands of products that aren't that differentiated.

Comment by agile-gift0262 4 days ago

Agreed. I bought my low profile keychron k3 pro, I believe it was, several years ago and I'm really happy with it. No complaint whatsoever. I bought the equivalent with full layout for my wife a couple of years ago and she's really happy with it too.

I don't think I can move away from low profile mechanical keyboards with programmable firmware like QMK now. I'm too used to my Keychron

Comment by miladyincontrol 3 days ago

Theres nothing about the moonlander that forces you to not be QWERTY though, and I'd bet most people are in fact on QWERTY with it.

Do you mean hard to quit staggered keyboards? As in the rows dont line up in a grid.

Personally I've been using ortholinear boards for over a decade to the point that its quite the opposite problem, it feels so unnatural to have to move your fingers in such directions. Sometimes there is just no home row quite like a 48 key planck's.

Comment by stasomatic 3 days ago

Do you mean hard to quit staggered keyboards? As in the rows dont line up in a grid.

Perhaps. But also, during my 3-4 day infatuation phase, I spent too much time screwing around with remapping and thumb keys and layers with zero to show for it. I do not blame ortho/Moonlander/staggered, this was on me. I am a victim of having too many choices.

Comment by wongogue 4 days ago

I also realised that qwerty will always be required. So I use colemak-dhm on split-columnar-blank-keycap keyboards with less keys and qwerty on unibody-rowstaggered-printed-keycap full-size keyboards. It helps my brain to switch.

It is very similar to using both bikes, ebikes and motorcycles all having different controls. Your brain can have different muscle memory if it thinks of them as different things.

Comment by fodkodrasz 4 days ago

They have silent keyboards in full size and TKL, with Hu layout. It is really silent, with butterfly mechanics, and was ~50€ with VAT included!

Had a slight bug that the kbd didn't wake until first mouse click, when machine woke from sleep, but a recent receiver firmware update solved it. It is great value for the buck. It is very hard to find really silent keyboards, especially in ISO layouts, and there they have it. Is it customizable? Only in software. Does it have trendy clicky keys or fancy keycaps? No. Is it good for my work, when I sometimes have to work late and not disturb my family? It is great!

ps: I'm not at home, I cannot recall the model, I don't really care for this stuff, this is exactly what I wanted: an unnoticable workhorse with good price-performce .

Comment by pastel8739 4 days ago

> QWERTY is hard to quit

Is your moonlander not QWERTY? Can’t you just change the layout, if not? Or do you mean the Ortholinear layout is hard to get used to?

I’ve been wanting to buy a moonlander…

Comment by DuncanCoffee 4 days ago

I think he meant that the left side has QWERT and the right one has the Y

Comment by stasomatic 4 days ago

It's both the ortho and the split. The Moonlander is a very nice keyboard, it's worth its BOM, I was simply impatient. I bought it for the cool factor on a whim without realizing time investment required. My email is in my profile, I'm in the states.

Comment by snapplebobapple 4 days ago

Mine is plugged in but not that used yet. Same deal its hard to change habits. I also find it slightly too big for my hands especially with the mouseball added. Its sad because it feels so qualoty and the ideas are awsome just my habits are slowing my adoption

Comment by CobaltFire 4 days ago

You sound like me. Same gripe about my Keychron, same Moonlander gathering dust that I keep meaning to do something with...

Comment by hack1312 4 days ago

I mentioned it to the person you’re replying to but if you’re in the USA and considering. in offloading the Moonlander I’m interested. My email is available in my profile.

Comment by techpression 4 days ago

Agree, not much special about them, and I truly hate their keycap profile which I find to be way too tall. They’re not bad keyboards, and regularly on sales in the 40-60% range for many of their boards, it’s just that they’re not great either, middle of the road so to say.

Comment by igl 4 days ago

I had keyboards upwards of $200 with a very nice design but they have their Bluetooth switch underneath the keycaps ... and usually don't ship ISO versions. What keychron is delivering for the price is just amazing.

Comment by hack1312 4 days ago

Hmu (email in profile) if you’re in the US and want to get rid of the moon lander; I really enjoy my Voyager want to try out the Moonlander.

That EPOMAKER reminds me of my Leopold Topre keyboard.

Comment by thenthenthen 4 days ago

Avoid EPOMAKER, they are super buggy in my experience (losing connection, requiring weekly reflashing of firmware).

Comment by DuncanCoffee 4 days ago

Mine hates the P button. Sometimes it will not react to it. Sometimes It wil repppeat it two or three times. But I love the aesthetic of the pastel colors, the volume sphere is cool and the typing feeling is great. I dropped my keychron k2 and it stopped working via usb, but charging still works. If I were able to fix it maybe (maybe) I'd switch back to it, in the end I prefer having a reliable keyboard.

Comment by Namidairo 4 days ago

> I like the EPOMAKER Magicforce Smart2 68-Key layout [0] . No QMK, but I get by with Karabiner, etc.

Many Epomaker boards are just licensed to be sold under their brand name, most of them fairly transparently. (Ie. Epomaker x Aula, Leobog etc.)

Quite a few of their configuration software packages end up looking quite horrible as a result, as I don't believe they have a unified software package for all the brands they sell. Many Windows Forms looking programs that look like a time machine back to the era of Windows XP.

Unfortunately they've also been caught up in quite a few scandals over the years: QMK license violations Customer support/Quality control issues Attempts to dodge customs by deliberately under-declaring the value of their packages... Got into a legal fight when another company also licensed an identical board design and beat them to market (The other company aren't angels either) Platform banned from Reddit for astroturfing

Which kind of just results in Epomaker in being a hard discourage.

Comment by stasomatic 4 days ago

At the time I purchased the one I linked to, it was sold under Qisan brand. I don't have any brand loyalty to either them or the Epomacher, I just prefer this specific "MagicForce 68 Smart" build - the layout, the quality, that it's only white backlit. It is really made well. If you can live without the F row, it's a great keyboard.

Comment by danudey 4 days ago

My only complaint is that the backlight behavior has like a dozen different settings, none of which are "off". There's "on", "flicker", "blink when you hit the key", "ripple out when you hit the key", "move in waves regardless of input", etc., but there's no "don't be light" option.

Comment by jffry 4 days ago

Fn+Tab is the backlight toggle on my V5 Max (and it's specifically called out in the user manual https://www.keychron.com/pages/keychron-v5-max-user-manual)

Comment by d_tr 4 days ago

I got a c3 pro a few weeks ago and you definitely can turn the lighting off. Don't remember whether it was through cycling or some other combo but you can. Did you look at the manual?

Comment by NormenKD 4 days ago

It's fn+light-key on my keychron. Might work on yours.

Comment by danudey 2 days ago

This works, thanks!

Comment by yborg 4 days ago

On mine, it's both!

Comment by martinjc 5 days ago

I bought a K4 Nordic version, only to learn none of their software supports it. So i can't reconfigure the firmware.

The keyboard has swapped Super/Alt (Windows/Alt) on the windows layout which is so annoying. I hate spending money on hardware so i'm living with it, but i curse the engineer that burned the prom every day.

Comment by benoau 5 days ago

That sucks, the main reason I like KeyChron is the little switch on the side of mine that toggles between Mac and Windows! I wouldn't buy another keyboard without this feature TBH.

Comment by martinjc 4 days ago

Yeah on the mac it works fine. The keyboard just shipped with the Left Alt and Left Windows key in the correct positions, but they are mapped opposite in the firmware. Imagine how maddening it was in the beginning.

Comment by mananaysiempre 4 days ago

GP’s point is that many keyboards these days come with a Mac/Windows switch, and one of the things that switch does is swap the keycodes sent by the Alt and Win keys—the “Mac” behaviour is exactly what you’re describing. (The other thing it does is toggle FnLock for the F-keys.) So if I had a problem like yours with my keyboard I’d think that the Mac/Win switch were in the wrong position. If I’m reading page 9 of the manual[1] right, on the K4 the switch in question is right next to the USB-C port.

[1] https://www.keychron.com/pages/k4-keyboard-user-manual

Comment by benoau 4 days ago

Are you sure you don't have a tiny switch on the side? The manual indicates it should have one -

https://www.keychron.com/pages/k4-user-manual

Comment by martinjc 4 days ago

I do, but when on the windows mode the keys mentioned are in the wrong positions.

Edit and if i switch to the macOS mode. The right alt-gr key is not mapped correctly.

Comment by wlesieutre 4 days ago

If you're not aware, you can remap modifier keys in System Settings on macOS. It doesn't have individual settings for left/right versions of a modifier key, so keep it in whichever mode has the modifiers on left/right paired with each other correctly, and then swap their functions to the right ones.

https://i.imgur.com/FXkmZRV.png

Settings are per keyboard so fixing your external keyboard won't mix up any other keyboards you use (particularly for laptops).

Comment by Barbing 4 days ago

On macOS:

I use my Keychron C3 in Windows mode because the macOS mode ain't right with the bottom left corner keys.

Maybe placement of Control/Option/Command aren't similar enough to the MacBook Pro keyboard for me.

Been meaning to figure this out and fix it... swapping physical keycaps or remapping in software or replacing the keyboard...

Comment by martinjc 4 days ago

Waiting for it to die and will not buy another of theirs. Piece of shit.

Comment by Barbing 4 days ago

Aw I like mine! Besides those few keys of layout.

Hope your next buy's perfect.

Comment by ErikBjare 4 days ago

I don't think I've ever had a keyboard die on me

Comment by theodric 4 days ago

Just remap it! If you're on Windows, SharpKeys will do that for you. https://github.com/randyrants/sharpkeys

Comment by martinjc 4 days ago

I have autohotkey for remapping. The issue is when i boot into a rpi with a new build, i don't want to pollute it with custom xbind mappings.

Comment by asabla 4 days ago

I had a similar issue with mine. But was able to reset it with Fn + z + j for a couple of seconds.

Comment by RicoElectrico 4 days ago

Well, seems to be popular on these kinda keyboards. At least my NuPhy has it.

Comment by ThrowawayR2 4 days ago

> "the little switch on the side of mine that toggles between Mac and Windows"

The physical slide switch on the Keychrons is a net negative for power users who use a KVM between Windows/Mac/Linux because it would wear out quickly and isn't replaceable. It's more sensible to have switching between layouts by keypress combination.

Comment by bigfishrunning 4 days ago

At least on the keychrons i've got, you can absolutely configure layout changes via key combination, and that slide switch is just an input like every button is an input.

I've got 2 that both run QMK firmware, so maybe the non-QMK ones can't do that, but at least some can.

Comment by svelle 4 days ago

Have been using one of their keyboards for two years switching between windows and macos and that key was not the one that wore out first. Plus on most keyboards you could configure the layout switch with qmk anyways.

Comment by BrandoElFollito 4 days ago

Why not reconfiguring it with something like AutoHotkey at the OS level ?

Comment by zakisaad 4 days ago

> I hate spending money on hardware so i'm living with it

This is an odd take to me, as personally I'd be more willing to spend money on well designed and made hardware, than most software.

Comment by brookst 4 days ago

I like their products, but I recently discovered that two separate keyboards that I bought a couple of years ago are not actually hot swap despite claiming to be.

On the bright side, both demonstrated very strong solder joints when pulled on fairly aggressively.

Comment by stingraycharles 4 days ago

It’s interesting and slightly off-topic, but I’ve been a Keychron user for years (currently have their latest Q6 Ultra 8K), and I’m wondering whether I should be using QMK? I’ve never really dug into it before, but I’m afraid I’ll be losing functionality.

Comment by ghtbircshotbe 4 days ago

I only bought one keyboard from keychron and it was flaky from day one. It's the simplest keyboard they sold - wired, non hot swap. I don't know how to diagnose and fix the problem or I might try. In the end it wasn't worth $50, and you can get other Chinese mechanical keyboards for half the price with seemingly better quality control. Really can't recommend keychron

Comment by spike021 4 days ago

my issue with the one i have (k2, iirc) is that if i use it wirelessly and the battery dies, it becomes a brick until its been fully recharged. it won't even work as a wired keyboard until then. so ever since then i only use it wired.

Comment by esseph 4 days ago

Weird, my K1SE or K8Pros aren't like that.

Comment by spike021 4 days ago

Here's one reddit thread about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Keychron/comments/j28yzg/k2_v2_does...

seems like there's a workaround but obviously far from ideal.

edit:

actually this may be the one I remember seeing at the time: https://www.reddit.com/r/Keychron/s/Dewr2dbVNX

Comment by esseph 4 days ago

This workaround?

"For anyone finding this thread like I just did, all it took for me was plugging the keyboard into a usb 3.0 slot"

Comment by spike021 4 days ago

supposedly but i don't believe that worked for me at the time (I was connecting it to an m1 Mac Mini, which I believe has usb4 ports).

Comment by fn-mote 4 days ago

Announces != releases.

They claim 2027 Q1 will be the release date.

Links below purporting to be “the repository” lead to a repo with no source code.

Sorry, I’m cynical. An announcement 6-9 months ahead of release? Why? Right now it’s vaporware.

Comment by ssl-3 4 days ago

I'm cynical, too, and I have good reason to be.

I recently bought a Keychron TKL keyboard that uses Hall effect switches. It is, in my opinion, a lovely board to type on and so far I like it quite a lot. (Hopefully, this board with its socketed HE switches will serve longer than the previous board that had soldered Cherry MX Blues.)

It was advertised as being open-source and supporting QMK. Not at some time in the mysterious future, but right then. (And that's still true right now -- the web page is unchanged.)

But it does not have source available. The link for source code on the website lands at a Github page for a completely-unrelated keyboard, and I can't do anything at all with it using QMK. Extensive digging to find the source has resulted in zero positive results.

In the case of this Keychron keyboard, the promise of source code consists of resolute lies more than it does vaporware: The source is stated to openly exist, but it does not exist.

A question about this situation to their support email resulted in assignment of a ticket number, followed by silence.

So yeah, anyway: The cynicism is valid.

Comment by deepsun 4 days ago

Well technically they sold you product that does not satisfy description, so you can claim money back even after warranty period ends (same as factory bugs/mistakes, they cannot be put under warranty period).

Comment by ssl-3 4 days ago

I've got better things to do than to die on a hill made of a corporate lie that is worth less than $100.

Comment by squigz 4 days ago

Did you try contacting them and asking them about it?

Comment by ssl-3 4 days ago

Yes.

> A question about this situation to their support email resulted in assignment of a ticket number, followed by silence.

It's annoying, but it's not the end of the world.

I don't even really know what I'd do with QMK if I could use it. This is the first keyboard I've owned that was advertised to support QMK and I was kind of hoping to learn more about the kinds of clever things that can (and cannot) be done with it; I'm not sure what I'm missing out on here.

Comment by squigz 4 days ago

> > A question about this situation to their support email resulted in assignment of a ticket number, followed by silence.

Oh, my apologies, I missed that line.

> I don't even really know what I'd do with QMK if I could use it. This is the first keyboard I've owned that was advertised to support QMK and I was kind of hoping to learn more about the kinds of clever things that can (and cannot) be done with it; I'm not sure what I'm missing out on here.

I felt the same way before I started using it. Once you start though, you'll start thinking of ways to tweak it for your own workflow and pretty soon you won't be able to go without it.

Comment by ssl-3 4 days ago

One of these days, maybe I'll get an opportunity to explore it. :) I seem to be running across more people saying interesting things about QMK than I used to, but maybe some of that is just observational bias bringing it to the forefront.

If I may ask: What's good about it for your use?

Comment by ValentinPearce 4 days ago

Not the same user but I can chime in here. I'm mostly on a smaller split keyboard but having symbols accessible trough a layer without having to leave home row is definitely something I like to add to my keyboard configurations. That and home row modifiers or shortcuts I use often.

Comment by justsomehnguy 4 days ago

Remap Shift to CapsLock or whatever. I also have full mouse controls on the right side which is a gimmick but comes handy once in a while.

Comment by ssl-3 4 days ago

I think I can do all of that with Keychron's webusb interface (which works fine in Chrome, including with Linux after some permissions butchering): https://launcher.keychron.com

There's quite a lot that can be done in there including some mouse functions.

After some thought, I think I'd want QMK for weirder stuff.

Maybe steal a few pins for a rotary encoder that sticks out of the side and acts as a volume knob (I really like having physical knobs for volume).

Or RGB dumb stuff: Of the built-in RGB modes, I like "heatmap" the best. Areas of the keyboard light up with progressively-warmer colors as I type, and I think that's both fun and non-distracting.

It's an HE keyboard, so it knows the linear position of all of the keys with decent resolution. If it's got enough grunt to spare, it can calculate the velocity and end-travel point of each keypress.

So lazy typing can light up with a nice cool blue-ish heatmap, and faster-but-relaxed typing can eventually progress all the way through orange and red. It does this right now with its existing mode.

But with velocity and travel added as inputs: Furious, hard, high-velocity typing that really bottoms out the keys could start off being really red straight away, even if few keys have been pressed.

Or key repeat rates: If I want any random key to repeat Really Fast or Really Slow right now, maybe that can be made to be very dynamic thing thing by pressing that key harder or softer, or even vary throughout a single keypress by looking at the key's linear position. (Maybe I should patent that one. You read it here first, Mr. Patent Examiner.)

Comment by bluGill 4 days ago

Keychron is a real company with a good history so it isn't unreasonable to expect it and thus you shouldn't be too cynical. However don't confuse that with don't be cynical at all - many companies with a good history have canceled projects, and this is still vaporware.

Comment by HDBaseT 4 days ago

Don't they already have open source firmware, at least for their keyboards. I have a K4 HE and this is on their Github [1].

[1] - https://github.com/Keychron/qmk_firmware/tree/hall_effect_pl...

They publish the .stp, .dxf, .dwg, .pdf files for a lot of their products already too.

I would be fairly optimistic that they will hold their promise.

Comment by thomaslord 4 days ago

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Keychron has legitimately published the source for their QMK branches.

The real issue is that people buying a keyboard that advertises QMK support reasonably expect that they can install the upstream generic QMK, but Keychron actually maintains a bunch of "playground" branches on their fork of the QMK repository that each function as their own version of QMK.

I've been using a Q6 Pro as my primary keyboard for a while and I like it overall, but I was very disappointed when I decided to roll up my sleeves and compile QMK myself. My board launched with a build from the "bluetooth_playground" branch, which hasn't been updated for 2 years now and is now 6000 commits behind the main QMK project. There's now a separate "wireless_playground" branch which has been updated more recently and has an entry for my keyboard, but the link on the product page still goes to "bluetooth_playground" and even "wireless_playground" is 3000 commits behind the main QMK project.

Keychron boards without special functionality seem to get added to upstream QMK just fine, but a lot of us owners of bluetooth-enabled Keychron boards would really appreciate it if they provided an official way to flash normal QMK and just forgo the wireless features.

Comment by LittleLily 4 days ago

I wonder if it would be possible to get ZMK working on it instead, since that's built primarily for wireless support, and also supports wired configurations too as of recently. Seems like the STM32 that the Q6 pro uses is supported, so you might have some luck: https://zmk.dev/docs/hardware

Comment by phoghed 4 days ago

If they plan on developing it in the open and taking early contribution / feedback could be a valid (and good) reason.

Comment by palata 4 days ago

Or it's (again) a brilliant idea from those marketing people, something along the lines of "let's announce something we don't have and see how it is received, so that we will see if there is interest or not".

It's not even made up, I have seen marketing people actually do that.

Comment by MayeulC 4 days ago

Hmm, I have a mouse and trackballs from ploopy, they run QMK, so why was a new project needed? What is the added value?

To me, the missing feature in the QMK ecosystem is a devices too device communication channel. For now there is only caps lock & others: it would be nice to activate a mouse layer (for instance: increase DPI) to a keyboard key.

It is probably solvable if a heavyweight was to push for new HID descriptors or something similar.

Comment by wongogue 4 days ago

Has anyone hacked a scroll-lock based signalling solution for this.

Comment by jerlam 5 days ago

This would be more exciting if Keychron had mice of more interesting / experimental form factors and functionality. Just like their keyboards, their mice are mostly differentiated by obscure technical features (polling rates!).

I'm a bit worried that a decent, modern replacement for the extremely obsolete multi-button mouse I have now (Logitech G602) will never be available.

Comment by luqtas 4 days ago

i'm using this mouse for over 2 years now: https://happort.org/mouse

it uses this board: https://github.com/jfedor2/rp2040-pmw3360 and i can dig into my .stl files for the mouse if you want... made it on Blender and https://ryanis.cool/cosmos/beta - it's not the most lightweight thing in the world (would say around 100 grams) but it slides nicely and maybe by cycling/exercising often i don't think this one would give me RSI at any point in time... it's angle based on the most muscle neutral position the human arm anatomy has, between 20° - 30° [0] https://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.2004.34.10.638

Comment by 100percentjake 5 days ago

I miss my G602 so much. Replaced it with a G604 and then replaced that one with another G604 and then a third G604 before realizing that Logi's build quality has seemingly dived off a cliff for the premium they charge for their product and swapped to the 50% as expensive Keychron mice and keyboards and have been satisfactorily living with the decrease in available buttons (though quite an adjustment was needed). Onset of carpal tunnel has seen me switch to a vertical mouse anyways, so a change was inevitable.

Comment by big_toast 4 days ago

I made the G602 to G604 to ?? transition. I ended up on the Razer Naga v2 Hyperspeed because I couldn't give up the dual mode scrolling. It functions very well but I'm waiting for it to break and find it discontinued like all the rest.

I got it a few years ago now so I'm not sure what mice I considered. But I'm always curious to hear if people have found better mmo mice. The 12 buttons + 2 index buttons, the high dpi, the 2.4ghz, the two scroll modes. I really enjoy it.

Comment by regularfry 4 days ago

I've just grabbed myself a Nape Pro trackball. It's really quite neat. ZMK firmware (which was actually the main thing I wanted) and a configurable positioning angle. I'm still getting used to it but so far it looks like a decent addition to my wireless toolkit.

I would prefer a bigger trackball as a daily driver, but it's an interesting device otherwise. It feels like they could reasonably do a mini version, too, just by chopping the non-main buttons in half. Definitely going to crack it open and see what the innards look like.

Comment by kolmel 4 days ago

What about the Nape Pro? I haven’t used it personally, but I think it fits in the “interesting/experimental” category?

https://keychron.com.au/collections/mouse/products/keychron-...

Comment by minimaxir 4 days ago

My G602 died due to Logitech's infamous double-click issue. :(

I've been fine with the G502 X Lightspeed (which should avoid said double-click issue due to optical switches) and some more efficient button use to compensate for the fewer side buttons.

Comment by glitchc 4 days ago

You can replace the switch, it's a pretty simple solder replacement, just a couple of pins. I did that for my G300s.

Comment by ErroneousBosh 4 days ago

> Logitech's infamous double-click issue. :(

Isn't that just the tact switch failing? Two minute job to replace...

Comment by drdexebtjl 4 days ago

Not on this mouse.

I looked it up (because I had already replaced switches on previous mice) and the fix required carefully removing a rubber cover that is glued in place and tears if you look at it wrong. It also requires removing the skates at the base, which means buying new ones. Even if you do that, the switch is very hard to access. Easily a 60+ minutes job.

I bought the switch thinking it was a 2 minute job and it’s still sitting on a closet for when I have the patience to do it.

Comment by minimaxir 4 days ago

I do not casually have spare tactile switches, nor the hardware skills to replace.

Comment by fylo 4 days ago

Its very easy to source switches, soldering kit and skill curve for this particular repair is short. Plus you can even end up with better performing mouse switches

Comment by Mengkudulangsat 4 days ago

I moved from Logitech to Keychron because of double-click.

Unfortunately my Keychron M7 got double-click too. Getting very jaded with the mouse industry at this point.

Comment by realityfactchex 4 days ago

> a decent, modern replacement for...G602

What's wrong with the G502? I like the wired G502 pretty well. Ideally I'd tweak the shape to be a little more like the M500s shape, but I'm happy enough with it overall.

Comment by pdpi 4 days ago

I had a G502 that lasted years, but the last two I bought lasted me 6 months each (the wheel got completely gummed up somehow). I acknowledge that cat hair and sweaty hands are a bad combination for a mouse wheel, but that's insanely poor durability, and they're annoying enough to disassemble that they're effectively not cleanable.

Comment by russianGuy83829 4 days ago

While its not on the same level, check out the M6. You can remap the side scroll buttons, as well as the two other ones, which gives you four actions.

Comment by DemiGuru 5 days ago

For those that are interested: - https://github.com/Keychron/zgm - https://zgm.gg/

Comment by exidex 5 days ago

Um, did they announce opensource firmware without providing the source?

Comment by fc417fc802 4 days ago

Well some of their keyboards also hypothetically have open source firmware yet upon introducing a hardware revision they never released the necessary files. I only know this because I actually wanted to purchase one of those keyboards specifically for the open firmware.

They still seem to be the best (approximately only) game in town if you want the ability to flash your own firmware to a standard off the shelf peripheral.

Comment by DemiGuru 5 days ago

Based on what I understand, pull requests are coming. In the meantime they provide directions for people that want to contribute here -> https://github.com/Keychron/zgm/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md

Comment by jerlam 4 days ago

That file appears to be either copied from a completely unrelated repo or vibe-coded.

> This repository is a lightweight analysis and report-generation workspace.

And "please contribute to our blank open-source project" can be taken with a grain of salt.

Comment by martinjc 5 days ago

Where are the PRs coming in? I see a repo without source code.

Comment by robrtsql 5 days ago

Yep!

> This repository is currently in its early setup phase.

> At the moment, the repository mainly contains project scaffolding, policy files, and the initial project direction. Firmware sources, board support, build instructions, and flashing guidance are still being prepared.

> That means zgm is early, but it is intentionally early in public. The goal is not to wait until everything is finished before opening the door. The goal is to make the long-term direction visible and let the project grow into a useful open firmware platform in the open.

Comment by fwip 4 days ago

> That means zgm is early, but it is intentionally early in public.

"Intentionally early" is one of those phrases that means they vibed this README out in an hour with AI, and now hope that they can create firmware for it in the next 6 months.

Comment by unbolted3032 4 days ago

I bought two (identical) of these keyboards and they're by far the worst keyboard I've ever purchased. OOB, both had Bluetooth stability issues, dropping out at least 1-2 times a day, resulting in a sustained keypress being interpreted by the OS while they reconnectedddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd.

Vendor support suggested upgrading the firmware (I was on the latest firmware) so I followed their instruction - which nuked the keyboard's ability to use Bluetooth at all. No refund or replacement offered by vendor after reporting this.

I still use the non-broken one, exclusively in wired mode, and EVERY single time I use it, I have to perform the factory reset (Fn + z + j) in order to get the lights to work. Otherwise, cycling through the presets simply dims them until they're not visible.

I'm yet to find anybody with the same problems as me.

Comment by elictronic 4 days ago

Greetings and salutations. Same issue on two seperate keychron keyboards with repeating key presses I purchased for wife and myself. She ran hers on a Mac and I am on a windows gaming rig.

I tried changing the key, updating firmware, different cord and wireless, and just got tired of it and threw them both into my backup in case of closet. I saw so many positive comments about these keyboards but will never buy another after getting burned twice.

I don’t think everyone is BSing but getting two lemons is weird and makes me second guess the positive comments. I never contacted support, just found repair routes online. I had spent enough time faffing about with them, few hundred dollars wasn’t worth my time after that.

Comment by u8080 3 days ago

This is probably because of shitty Cypress/Infineon "iton_bt" bluetooth module used. Do you have K2/K6 ?

Comment by nijave 5 days ago

Hopefully better than their QMK fork. They force push over their branch in their fork each new release effectively erasing history of the last version...

Of course there's no change log anywhere either...

Comment by seba_dos1 5 days ago

> effectively erasing history of the last version

Does that mean they remove any release tags as well?

Comment by nijave 4 days ago

Iirc there are no release tags, they build off the tip of the branch

Actually it's their zmk fork, not qmk https://github.com/Keychron/zmk/tree/rtl8762g

Comment by seba_dos1 4 days ago

Perhaps asking them to tag the releases is all that's needed then.

Comment by warmwaffles 5 days ago

I don't blame them though. QMK is a mess of a monolithic repository.

Comment by Graziano_M 4 days ago

QMK should be thrown away. ZMK is much, much cleaner.

Comment by abhinavk 4 days ago

Yep. I am waiting for half-duplex UART splitkb support to come so that I can move everything over.

Comment by echelon 5 days ago

I suspect that a lot of hardware will start shipping open source firmware soon. Routers, IP cameras, etc.

It'll be a selling point for everyone tinkering with vibe coding, and it's no longer a moat.

Companies that don't do this will have their firmwares dumped with open source models and tools. Companies that do this will have community goodwill and extra distribution that comes from having people talking about your product.

Comment by kube-system 5 days ago

That might happen in niche enthusiast verticals like PC gaming. It's not going to happen in the broader market because there is no broader interest in it.

Most people want open source firmware for their router like they want open source sewing patterns for their pants. Primarily these are consumer products where people buy the product as a way to intentionally avoid spending time dealing with the problem they solve.

Open source pants might sell well in a Hobby Lobby and an open source IP camera might sell well in a Micro Center, but neither would sell well enough to get shelf space in a Walmart... and the best selling one in Walmart sells a tiny fraction compared to whoever can land an Xfinity contract.

Comment by RobotToaster 5 days ago

Tangential but open source pants are very much a thing https://freesewing.eu/

Comment by kube-system 4 days ago

Of course they are, as are open-source IP cameras and routers. My point is not that they don't exist, my point is that these things have interest only within relatively tiny bubbles.

Comment by jerlam 4 days ago

A seam ripper will "de-compile" any garment you like.

Comment by drnick1 5 days ago

> Routers, IP cameras, etc.

Those already exist: OpenWRT, OpenIPC. I wish more hardware was available though, especially for cameras.

Comment by loloquwowndueo 5 days ago

Do you have any cameras that support openipc you’d recommend?

I need surveillance cameras (outdoor mostly) but the cheap ones I found are a horrid proprietary mess. I even bought and returned one after the setup was complex and invasive.

Basically all I need is access to the live stream from a raspberry pi where I can store and process the video.

Comment by drnick1 5 days ago

> Do you have any cameras that support openipc you’d recommend?

I don't, unfortunately. My suggestion would be to use cameras that stream over RTSP, an open protocol, so you don't need to use any proprietary tools/apps. Make sure the cameras are air-gapped.

Comment by dmitrygr 5 days ago

> Companies that don't do this will have their firmwares dumped with open source models and tools

This is not as "one and done" as you make it sound.

Comment by warmwaffles 5 days ago

I suspect a lot of that firmware has NDAs with Broadcom attached.

Comment by tancop 5 days ago

thats not the blocker you think it is. they can "leak" the info, wait until broadcom lawyers notice, agree to investigate themselves and fire a random contractor (who gets paid on the side). they just need to do it outside of america to avoid discovery if anyone decides to sue them.

Comment by deepthaw 4 days ago

It took me three hours to figure out how to blacklist my Keychron keyboard from showing up as a joystick - and screwing up several games that thought they were receiving constant joystick input - in Linux, so I'm not sure how keen I am on using their stuff in the future. Is that a common issue in Linux?

Comment by bscphil 4 days ago

Oh cool, someone talking about the really weird bug that I've never seen reported elsewhere. Seems like an issue where certain versions of Unity (to name one engine) doesn't like it when your actual game controller is the second joystick it detects. Not really Keychron's fault or Linux's fault, just a weird engine quirk.

Anyway, if someone finds this by searching, at least on Arch it's as simple as adding a custom hwdb entry at /etc/udev/hwdb.d/61-input-id-local.hwdb:

  id-input:modalias:input:b0003v3434p0283*
   ID_INPUT_JOYSTICK=

and then run systemd-hwdb update.

The modalias value is found at /sys/class/input/<yourdevice>/device/modalias

Comment by jeddy3 4 days ago

I can at least say that it's not endemic.

I have two different Keychron keyboards, used in different Linux distros. I have never experienced, and wouldn't even had imagined, such a scenario.

Comment by ssl-3 4 days ago

I can imagine it very easily, depending on the keyboard.

For example: The Keychron C3 HE I'm typing this on (which I ranted elsehere about lacking the open-source/QMK firmware it is advertised to have) has some peculiar features that it supports. The way they used Hall effect keyswitches lets some fun stuff happen.

That fun stuff includes 3 different modes: One is just a keyboard, and the other two modes let the keyboard behave exactly like a game controller. At least one of those game controller modes even lets keys behave as analog inputs.

I haven't knowingly used this keyboard in game controller mode, but perhaps it is something can be selected by software (in addition to the multi-key combo listed in the book).

Comment by gblargg 4 days ago

> At least one of those game controller modes even lets keys behave as analog inputs.

Now that's a really cool feature I never thought of when considering a Hall-effect keyboard. I knew you could adjust the activation position of each key on some, but analog would be great for games.

Comment by ssl-3 3 days ago

It's a pretty neat keyboard and I'm glad that I chose it.

And while I know some of how the Hall effect works, I didn't research how that relates to keyswitches at all before buying it. In terms of use, I just knew that they weren't clicky[1] and that they didn't rely upon electrical contacts that can corrode. It was risky in this way, but I was buying under duress since at the time I needed a new keyboard approximately yesterday.

Having the ability to shift this thing into a bunch of analog inputs was a complete and total surprise. I hope to be able to come up with something unique to do with the this function some day.

[1]: It turns out that my typing style didn't depend upon clicky at all. My hands, forearms, and wrists feel the same as they always have, and my typing speed still tops out at an accurate ~100WPM at times when that's useful. There was no adjustment period, which was a bit of a surprise.

Comment by deepthaw 4 days ago

Probably depends on the specific device and specific game. I ended up using some info from here.

https://github.com/denilsonsa/udev-joystick-blacklist

Comment by aprilnya 4 days ago

I think this has to do with their 2.4G dongle for their wireless keyboards - it shows up as a DirectInput (but not XInput) controller for me on Windows for whatever reason. The keyboard itself doesn't though.

Comment by esseph 4 days ago

No? I run Fedora and have a few keyboards from them and have not seen that. 1x K1SE and 2x K8 Pros for reference.

Comment by tmvphil 4 days ago

Cool, I like Keychron products, but can people really not even write a single tweet without using AI to speak for them now?

Comment by Tade0 5 days ago

I stumbled upon this brand when I was looking for a hall effect QMK keyboard.

Glad to see them introducing this - I might make a purchase as while my current mouse is great, I can't customise it because the associated bloatware runs only on Windows.

Comment by JLO64 5 days ago

I’ve had positive experiences with Keychron products in the past, but I’ve moved past them as I now prefer orthogonal layouts. That said, I loved their support of QMK on my Q1 Pro and I really hope this ends up on that same level.

Comment by abhinavk 4 days ago

Do you mean really ortholinears like Planck or columnars like Corne, Sofle, Kinesis?

Comment by JLO64 4 days ago

My bad, I did mean "ortholinear"!

Comment by loloquwowndueo 5 days ago

Ortholinear, surely?

Which one do you use/have now?

Comment by JLO64 4 days ago

You're right, I do have an ortholinear keyboard!

I have an Inland MK-47 I bought on a whim from Microcenter, but it's been absolutely transformational. It did require a fair amount of setup though:

- I swapped out the switched from crummy reds to some lubed Keychron Browns I had.

- I had some custom keycaps made via https://yuzukeycaps.com/ since the ones it came with were abysmal.

- I had to enlarge the cutout for the USB-C port in the case so it could fit cables other than the one it came with.

- The default shortcuts/functions were bad so I had to customize it in QMK.

Comment by m463 4 days ago

I bought a Q6 wired keyboard. Most solid keyboard I've ever owned.

Only problem is the backlight didn't actually light up the keys.

It wasn't fixable. first, the keys that came with the keyboard were opaque. And after the arduous task of replacing the keys with shine-through keycaps -- all the LEDs were positioned below the keystem instead of above, so the lettering wasn't illuminated.

I would have loved to use that keyboard. Switched to steelseries apex pro.

Comment by RandomMarius 4 days ago

But can it run DOOM?

My Pulsar mouse has an OLED display on the underside, DOOM could work... :P But it won't be able to use the firmware, neither would my Gaming Gear OP1.

I already have 2 Keychron HE TKL keyboards, both configured and used under Linux, and it was such a breath of fresh air to configure. I'll definitely consider their mice in the future.

Comment by DuncanCoffee 4 days ago

Crossing my fingers for an open source MMO mouse. While many linux solutions exists which allow you to use the side buttons macro on board, and sometimes to create new ones, Corsair had a feature where the side buttons template switched based on the foreground window, I loved always having the correct one for firefox, intellij and even games.

Comment by Pet_Ant 4 days ago

I hope they make a wired one. Ideally with a detachable USB-C for when the cat eventually chews on it.

Comment by 4 days ago

Comment by burner420042 4 days ago

The number of buttons on ergonomic mice is excessive. More than 3 is too much. So I'm sitting there wondering what else you could use them for: a random squiggler to keep the mouse moving and your monitor active when you want a break.

Comment by supriyo-biswas 4 days ago

I had a Logitech ergonomic mouse and by default, the two extra buttons corresponded to forward/back, and I had gotten quite used to them for navigating codebases. It's a shame the mouse didn't last long, though...

As for the squiggler, put a wrist watch or something underneath it?

Comment by aaviator42 4 days ago

When doing image editing and text copy editing, I find it very handy to have mouse thumb buttons mapped to copy / paste / cut / undo / redo / delete / shift / ctrl. Allows me to do a lot more with my mouse when I'm using it anyway to do stuff, without having to switch back and forth repeatedly with my keyboard.

Comment by matchstickman23 5 days ago

Very interesting. I've been eyeballing a mouse/trackball project for a while based on some of the open source designs like Ploopy and the like. Slap a Nordic chip on it and a joycon battery. Even better if you can cook up a wireless charging mousepad like Logitech offers!

Comment by OsrsNeedsf2P 4 days ago

I really wanted to like Keychron, but after spending 200$ on one of their high end keyboards, certain keys weren't detecting presses less than a month later. I couldn't end up fixing it so I tossed it out. Felt like a waste

Comment by zamadatix 4 days ago

Same. I ended up resoldering nearly all of the contact points (i.e. not the hot swap contact points but where those connect to the main board) because I liked the keyboard and firmware so much but it was such a stupid problem (way too little solder from the factory) for such an otherwise good and high end keyboard.

Comment by drnick1 4 days ago

I like building my own keyboards. I get to choose the keycaps, switches, PCB, foams, cases. If some component fails or does not feel right, and can replace it. Building won't be cheaper, but there is an enormous quality gap between mass produced stuff and custom keyboards. My switches (Gateron) cost more than than a mid-range keyboard. If you don't want to go full DIY but want custom quality, check out Mode Designs for example.

Comment by abhinavk 4 days ago

I am deep into custom keyboards but I only buy ones with hot swappable switches. Some keys like AWSDEHJKL etc are bound to fail sooner than others.

Comment by michaelt 4 days ago

As the poster is saying "certain keys weren't detecting presses less than a month later" it's almost certainly a manufacturing defect, rather than a wear-out issue.

Keychron say their mechanical switches last '50 million clicks' so to wear out after a month you'd have to be pressing the key 19 times a second, 24 hours a day.

Comment by fwip 4 days ago

And all of us have owned multiple keyboards that have lasted for years of daily heavy use without a single key failing. Even the $30 membranes you could buy at $local_retailer didn't fail in a month.

Comment by ComputerPerson 4 days ago

The mechanical keyboard hobby takes patience; just look at firmware customization: testing litterally requires keystrokes.

I'm on a Mac keyboard bent for the very reason, actually,

Mouse firmware sounds very cool, though. If you could access a layer by holding down a central button, that could open up neat possibilities.

Comment by aprilnya 4 days ago

> I couldn't end up fixing it so I tossed it out.

Was the warranty support not able to repair or replace it? I haven't ran into the need to contact them yet so I am curious about how good or bad they are...

Comment by bana-io 4 days ago

Keychron, I own two of your keyboards, actually three. If you want to send me an evaluation version of this mouse or even a sample reach out to me at m@bana.io.

Keep up the good work.

Biggest change I would request is a password before macros are allowed to be used. I store some sensitive information in macros because I hate typing them out so a feature to unlock macros when the device is first powered up would be great. Example:

1. Device powers off.

2. Lock macros keys.

3. Device powers on.

4. Show led indicating that macros are locked.

5. Enter password to unlock macros.

6. Led indicator turns green or some other colour to indicate that lock was successful upon entering password.

7. Macros can then be used.

Any other ideas would be great.

Comment by WithinReason 5 days ago

I hope this leads to macro programmable mice, the only brand I know of that saves macros on board and supports while loops is A4tech

Comment by ShinyLeftPad 4 days ago

Is it on QMK? It's GPL so it would require publishing the source anyway.

Comment by theGeatZhopa 5 days ago

Hmm that opens up a way for cheating in games - have a Screengraber and image processing running directly communicate with mouse and let it calculate the distance to region of interest internally and then give out delta position. For the system, it looks like the mouse has been moved very fast and far

Comment by orbital-decay 4 days ago

There's a ton of low-latency proxy hardware meant for cheating that does exactly that, out of the box, for those too lazy to do it themselves on any devboard. It's not an excuse for closed source mouse firmware

Comment by aprilnya 4 days ago

Sorry, how does new mouse firmware open this up...? USB/HID is a standard that anyone can implement, right? Is it that hard to implement a HID mouse emulator?

Comment by fragmede 4 days ago

it's hard enough that someone else having done and open-sourcing makes it easier for anyone else that wants it. It means you don't have to do that work.

Comment by kllrnohj 4 days ago

it's hardly difficult to do that already. Like a Raspberry Pi Pico can be turned into a HID mouse rather easily: https://www.instructables.com/Raspberry-Pi-Pico-As-HID-Mouse...

and yes, hdmi/displayport capture -> ML object detection -> fake HID mouse to cheat is absolutely already a thing.

Comment by Graziano_M 4 days ago

It's already being done. The fanciest game hacks use a custom PCI card to DMA game memory, read it on another computer, where it can do wallhacks and such.

But also, the second computer can drive a virtual mouse and keyboard which is connected to the 'legit' PC to even aim/move/shoot for you.

Comment by effnorwood 4 days ago

Keychron announces it has too much time on its hands while never being Datahand.

Comment by boobsbr 4 days ago

If you want a DataHand replacement, take a look at https://svalboard.com/. Costs an arm and a leg, though.

Comment by effnorwood 4 days ago

My brother. TY

Comment by lstodd 5 days ago

I still wait for someone to beat logitech m500 (released 2009) in ergonomics.

Comment by 4 days ago

Comment by yashau 4 days ago

Too bad Keychron quality of late has been horrendous. Support has been abysmal too. They've gone from a beloved manufacturer to basically public enemy number 1 in the enthusiast communities.

Comment by landver 4 days ago

[dead]

Comment by DobarDabar 5 days ago

Keychrone mice are already pretty nice, this is a welcome improvement

Comment by Evidlo 4 days ago

Their mice are pretty nice, and they come at a good price. The M7 is a particularly good device, and their other offerings have enticed me twice.

Comment by bigfishrunning 4 days ago

Thanks for being so concise

Comment by DobarDabar 3 days ago

[dead]

Comment by aparihar 4 days ago

[dead]

Comment by Neil44 4 days ago

This is going to be used for cheating / hacking in games.

Comment by userbinator 4 days ago

Never have I thought "I want a mouse with modifiable firmware", IMHO this is only going to lead to more bugs arising from the associated increase in complexity and the "we can always fix it later" mentality. All the mouses and keyboards I've used have a mask-programmed MCU, and essentially no bugs to speak of.

Comment by rincebrain 4 days ago

I think the point is less to add features and more to lower the barrier to entry for people making mice, since, as you said, in large part keyboards and mice are appliances to the degree that it should rapidly converge to a stable set of features.

Plus, on a human level, I wouldn't be surprised if the teams working on mouse development were annoyed they couldn't show their past work in the same way...

Comment by userbinator 4 days ago

to lower the barrier to entry for people making mice

The barrier is absolutely not firmware; you can get a single-chip sensor with a USB + PS/2 interface for cheap, no firmware required, and it's just plug-and-play on any PC. The mechanical design is the biggest hurdle.

https://github.com/RandomDelta6/USB-Mouse

Comment by rincebrain 4 days ago

I would imagine that it's plug and play until you start adding nonsense like customizable scripting on buttons or more than a certain button count as is standard on specialized gamer mice, but sure, fair enough.

"This is a platform you can build on", software and hardware specs included, is still a much nicer thing to iterate on than "it's commodity parts to slap together" for someone without familiarity with the processes involved at scale, and going from "this is an opaque piece of hardware that responds on guaranteed timing" to "this responds on guaranteed timing but also has more complex features" is still a substantial jump, since "building software that meets realtime timing requirements" is not a thing in a lot of people's wheelhouse.

Comment by 4 days ago