Half-Life ported to Mac OS 9
Posted by freediver 5 days ago
Comments
Comment by amatecha 5 days ago
[0] https://www.wired.com/1997/01/hackers-hack-crack-steal-quake...
[1] https://github.com/Jason2Brownlee/QuakeOfficialArchive/blob/...
Comment by EPWN3D 5 days ago
When I got the game and looked at the box, I was heartbroken. But I decided, why not put in the disk anyway. I did the Get Info on the app, and lo and behold, Lucas Arts had left what was probably a totally untested 68k slice in the binary. Double-clicked it, and I could play without a problem. Sure I had to play it in a tiny 320x240 window, but that extra 16 MB of RAM and extra 25 MHz made it playable.
Comment by amatecha 5 days ago
That's pretty lucky about the 68k code still being available in the binary! I can just imagine someone on the dev team going "ehh we aren't officially supposed to support it, but someone will be really glad we did even if it doesn't play as well as the PPC version"
Comment by EPWN3D 4 days ago
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Comment by jasomill 4 days ago
The system requirements on the box[1] claim MCGA support, which I'd expect to be technically correct since MCGA is just CGA plus VGA modes 11h and 13h, but I'm not aware of any MCGA systems other than the 8086-based variants of the entry-level IBM PS/2 Models 25 and 30.
Which a careful reading of the box label suggests might technically run the game, or at least walk it.
Because while it claims to require a 386, it also requires one megabyte of EMS memory, which would be an odd choice for an application running in (286 or 386) protected mode.
And since all the MCGA PS/2s were non-Micro Channel systems with 8-bit ISA slots, EMS cards were readily available.
It's still possible that the game uses instructions not supported by the 8086, of course.
God I feel old.
[1] https://www.mobygames.com/game/240/star-wars-tie-fighter/cov...
Comment by bluedino 4 days ago
I only had the demo of TIE Fighter (TIEDEMO.EXE), but I remember there being a SVGA version (maybe on CD) later one
Comment by taneq 5 days ago
I didn’t have to data mine a compatible .exe from the game files but I did have to use a special boot disk with a modified himem.sys on it so the game would launch. Good times, haha.
Comment by EPWN3D 4 days ago
Comment by amatecha 4 days ago
The other crazy "Mac vs. DOS/Win gamer" moment was when my buddy got a sound card for his birthday in 1994, maybe 1995. I remember being shocked about this -- "what the hell were you using before, then?", I wondered. This was when I learned about PC speaker audio. Wow. I had been getting nice 22khz (maybe even 44khz) stereo audio for years before my friend had anything better than a PC speaker. This particular moment made me especially wonder why anyone ever made fun of me for being a Mac owner, because they had literally nothing to be smug about except a broader selection of games.
Comment by EPWN3D 4 days ago
But that all went out the window with Quake. Once PCs got 3D graphics cards, Macs just couldn't keep up because those companies wouldn't write Mac drivers for their top-end stuff. I do remember getting a Voodoo 2 once 3Dfx started selling it for the Mac, and Unreal looker absolutely gorgeous.
Comment by johng 2 days ago
But damn, did I have fun playing that game... especially multiplayer over a modem.
Comment by tekchip 5 days ago
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Comment by gilgoomesh 5 days ago
I've watched interviews with Rebecca Heineman (one of the devs involved) on the topic. It did not make her happy.
Here's an article from the era:
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/mac-half-life-canceled/110...
Interview with Rebecca Heineman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPTLPXNtb2I
(skip to timecode 1:36:41 for the Half-Life details)
Comment by rufo 5 days ago
As an adult, and with the hindsight of seeing how Valve has (generally) supported their games over the years, I can appreciate gaben's reasoning for cancelling it... though as someone gaming on the Mac, we were all kind of used to being second class citizens and bodging together mod support and whatever, so I still think they should've let it come out.
> “Given the realities of the Mac gaming market, our Mac customers were… always going to be second-class customers where we couldn’t invest to the same degree in the Mac version as we did elsewhere,” commented Newell. “I don’t want to be in that business. I would much rather we just eat the money we’ve spent so far than take money from Mac customers and shortchange them.”
Comment by AdmiralAsshat 5 days ago
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Comment by manytimesaway 5 days ago
HN comment from a major maintainer here : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38314427
Valve has confirmed that it violates the HLSDK EULA, too. At least for the original Xash3D release.
Comment by xp84 5 days ago
Comment by itomato 5 days ago
There are many people working to extend NeXT, Openstep and even Rhapsody. Not to mention emulation projects and deep dives into XNU source, early Darwin source and shoehorning kernels and libraries into various places.
The Epson NX was purpose-built to run NeXTStep, for example, and bringing support for machines like that and the Canon object.station into 86box is a pet project of mine.
Join us https://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/index.php?topic=5286.ms...
Comment by User23 5 days ago
Comment by SkyeCA 5 days ago
I might be a developer, but I'm not one who knows how to develop drivers, so I gave Claude the spec sheets for several of the chips inside the camera, stated what my goal was, and after doing some debugging guided by the AI it just worked. So tada, an obsolete piece of hardware is now usable again.
Things like that are what have changed my mind on AI assisted development.
Comment by bsaul 4 days ago
Comment by CursedSilicon 5 days ago
Half-Life (and the later Source engine games such as Half-Life 2 and Portal) were ported without LLM assistance however
(Source: I am in the Discord where the developer has been working and diligently posting updates on the project)
Comment by userbinator 5 days ago
I suspect the community will fracture, and then once the pro-AI side shows off more and more of the amazing things they accomplished, they'll grow while the anti-AI side will eventually dry up into a few luddites.
I'm old enough to have been on the anti-HLL side when I was handwriting Asm for the PC, but of course HLLs took over because they're "good enough" and became a massive force multiplier.
Comment by asiekierka 5 days ago
One good example is nocash, who continues to write all of his Windows-targetting emulators in hand-rolled assembly to this very day. For a long time, some of his emulators - most notably NO$GBA - were at the forefront of popularity among homebrew developers due to their unmatched debugging tools; even though one could make them much faster with an HLL, nobody really stepped up to the task. Even now, his work remains relevant thanks to the extensive documentation he maintained alongside the emulators he developed.
Comment by TazeTSchnitzel 5 days ago
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Comment by xp84 3 days ago
[1] https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/doc...
Comment by ChoGGi 5 days ago
Less so in the hobby area, more so in the "they're taking our jobs" area.
Comment by CamperBob2 4 days ago
Comment by CursedSilicon 4 days ago
The great thing about retro computing is we want to see what people come up with. Not slop bots!
Comment by xp84 3 days ago
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Comment by Jackknife9 5 days ago
I think hobbiests do not have that much free time to create these tools for retro computers. AI is a great tool for this, as it saves time so people can make projects that would otherwise not exist.
I remember arguing with someone on Reddit who said they’d rather not have the tool if it was made by AI, which I thought was a crazy take.
Comment by pelasaco 5 days ago
Comment by ChrisRR 5 days ago
The fact of the matter is people are going to keep using AI to create projects no matter how much the others complain about it, so I fall on the side of enjoying these new-old retro projects
Comment by turpentine 5 days ago
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Comment by srp-shay 5 days ago
I did use AI to assist me in development and I'm not shy about admitting that. This was still a hands-on effort that took well over 40 hours of development time spread over a couple months. Much like other development tools, AI certainly sped up my development process and allowed to ship something in a couple of months using my free time.
AI is a tool and it isn't going anywhere, I've posted my thoughts about AI extensively in the PowerPC community. I don't proactively volunteer or plaster my readmes with notes about AI because it doesn't really matter.
Speaking for me personally I have no problem using tools in my toolbelt to solve problems faster in my limited free time.
Comment by hoten 5 days ago
Comment by CamperBob2 5 days ago
NGL, it's not an altogether-comfortable feeling. At least not yet.
Comment by yowzadave 5 days ago
Comment by CursedSilicon 5 days ago
Many people refuse to use LLM's for various reasons that I don't need to rehash here
Comment by CamperBob2 5 days ago
It would be one thing if we were talking woodworking or pottery or another skilled craft, where your personal growth of talent with experience is evident in the product, resulting in something you can look back on fondly and point to with pride.
But moving some legacy code (which you didn't write) from one platform to another? What do you get out of doing that by hand?
Comment by CursedSilicon 5 days ago
I suggest instead you go read up on why people dislike them and gain a more well-rounded and nuanced understanding of the topic
Comment by CamperBob2 5 days ago
Comment by ChoGGi 5 days ago
Comment by CamperBob2 4 days ago
But what I'm gaining in exchange is the ability to get more stuff done, which (to me) is what it's all about. It doesn't matter whether it's a hobby or professional project: when I start something, there's always a goal or result in mind, and whatever tools get me to that result are going to get used.
I'm not completely unsympathetic to the OP's point of view, though, where the journey itself is all the reward they are seeking. That's one reason why I deleted the comment, as it came across as more negative and critical than I intended.
Comment by geerlingguy 5 days ago
Comment by ColdStream 5 days ago
Considering these coding system probably have almost no idea of the Neo Geo's specifics and with very little reference code directly linked to the system to bounce off, that is dang impressive.
Comment by Coeur 5 days ago
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Comment by someperson 5 days ago
Or alternatively best classic Simpsons episodes are yet to be made.
Comment by gcanyon 5 days ago
Best Beatles song recorded between Rubber Soul and Revolver, composed mainly by McCartney but Lennon wrote the bridge and Ringo was feeling adventurous and Harrison was angry that day, and it was deemed not commercial enough to include on Revolver.
Best season 3 episode of The Simpsons, really showing the transition to Homer as the lead, written by Robert Cohen with significant musical input from Danny Elfman and featuring seven characters loosely representing the deadly sins, with Homer as Gluttony of course.
Comment by soulofmischief 5 days ago
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Comment by dosisking 5 days ago
Yes. This will happen.... when pigs fly
(It's still good, it's still good)
Comment by felixding 5 days ago
Comment by ChrisRR 5 days ago
That and just generally it feels so soulless nowadays. Mac OS pre-brushed metal felt like a breath of fresh air compared to os9, but it's taken it to its extreme now and it just looks bad
Comment by sgt 5 days ago
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Comment by mistercow 5 days ago
Aqua was garish and in your face, but it needed to be in order to be a symbol of what the system had achieved, which I think was especially important because that came at the cost of being a buggy, immature OS that had to run crucial apps in a hideous compatibility mode while it was getting established.
Edit: and if I can be a cranky old codger for a moment, I think that Liquid Glass unintentionally serves just as well as a symbol for what Apple has become: a company grasping to relive the memory of innovation without remembering how to innovate.
Comment by hedgehog 5 days ago
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Comment by walrus01 5 days ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIVA_TNT2
Or a voodoo2...
Comment by hedgehog 5 days ago
Comment by ColdStream 5 days ago
PPC ended up being a brilliant design done mediocre, while x86 is a mediocre design done very well.
Comment by hedgehog 5 days ago
Edit: It would be interesting to look at the software rasterizer and game engine problems in a modern context of big compute and superoptimizers and see what is possible. I'm guessing not much above what the hand-tuned code of the era got, but maybe significant in the context of doing these kinds of retro-ports on a small budget.
Comment by srp-shay 5 days ago
Comment by Sharlin 5 days ago
Myself, I played Half-Life on a 233MHz Pentium MMX, software rendered. It ran… adequately.
Comment by walrus01 4 days ago
In early 1998 a more normal baseline home gaming desktop PC was like a Pentium 266 MMX.
Comment by justsomehnguy 5 days ago
Minimum: 133 Recommended: 166+
Comment by hedgehog 5 days ago
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Comment by lloeki 5 days ago
The wildest cancel of all was certainly the impressive Dreamcast port, which was fully playable and basically ready to release but got canned a month before release.
Comment by sharkjacobs 5 days ago
Comment by jonhohle 5 days ago
That’s a deep cut. (And salt on the wound.)
Comment by NateEag 5 days ago
IIUC, the fact that they reprinted all the discs and manually replaced all the boxed, ready-to-ship discs to avoid any chance of destroying someone's data wound up eating most of the profits from Myth II.
That, in turn, led to the situation where they were too cash-strapped to finish Halo on their own, resulting in the infamous moment where Apple decided to buy them after all just a couple days too late: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/10/jobs-turned-down-bung...
I still fantasize about an Oni-meets-Mirror's-Edge freerunning / martial arts game.
Maybe there'd have been one if not for that bug.
Comment by ColdStream 5 days ago
Not sure what it was like towards the end of the Blam/Midnight/Slipspace engine era but at the beginning it was the dictionary definition of 'Technical debt'.
Comment by philodeon 5 days ago
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Comment by ayaros 5 days ago
Is the OS 9 build supposed to include Blue Shift and Opposing Force, or is that only a reference to the Tiger and Leopard ports? Just tried out the Tiger port on my iMac G4; it also runs fine!
Comment by srp-shay 5 days ago
The current Blue Shift and Opposing Force builds are for Tiger and Leopard only. Cheers!
Comment by ayaros 4 days ago
I ran the OS 9 installer, then was doing a few other things around the apartment and when I got back, it had crashed. So I reopened it, reran it, and it seems all the files had successfully been copied, so all it effectively did the second time was prompt me to create shortcuts.
I haven't extensively tested it beyond the initial parts of the training room because I didn't have time. I didn't notice anything odd; it seemed to run just fine.
Comment by system7rocks 5 days ago
Comment by ChrisMarshallNY 5 days ago
Now do MacOS 26, on M chips.
[UPDATE] To make it clear, it was a joke (always a faceplant, on HN, where senses of humor go to die). It's actually very cool. I just get cranky that 3/4 of my Steam games don't work on new Macs, and I did like HL.
Comment by nomel 5 days ago
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Comment by bombcar 5 days ago
Yay.
Comment by lenerdenator 5 days ago
If Apple Silicon ran my games collection I simply wouldn't have another computer other than my M2 MBP. I've run Fallout 3 on it, and while the emulation isn't perfect, it is playable and runs. The fan doesn't turn into a jet aircraft at takeoff, the temps stay cool.
The fact that most games won't play on Apple Silicon natively is a crime.
Comment by some-guy 5 days ago
[0]: https://github.com/OldUnreal/FullGameInstallers/releases/tag...
Comment by anthk 5 days ago
https://github.com/Sikarugir-App/Sikarugir
Next, open Steam and enable the "Steam Play/proton compatibility" in the settings.
Comment by lenerdenator 4 days ago
I do have some things that will play now, but I worry about that.
Comment by anthk 5 days ago
Well, try installing this Wine build for Mac and then Steam for Windows under it.
Then run Steam and enable "Steam Play/Proton compatibility" or whatever it's called under its settings.
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Comment by ChrisMarshallNY 5 days ago
Life’s too short to take seriously.
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Comment by ColdStream 5 days ago
Yeah, I think Steve took equal part great joy with a little sprinkle of sadness at what was that event.
Comment by ChrisRR 5 days ago
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Comment by philipwhiuk 5 days ago
Also I guess it's a bit more interesting the DOOM ports which have been done to death.
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Comment by 6stringmerc 5 days ago
I still send the di clan video around every few months to the Zoomers I connect with in games.
Halcyon days of HLDM and AG worldwide. RIP Neo. May you sneak around boot_camp in the great beyond with joy.
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