VMs can't boot with Network Mode set to Bridged on Apple M5 Pro machines

Posted by IndySun 6 days ago

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Comments

Comment by Aurornis 6 days ago

Classic GitHub issue thread: Someone shows up and tries to explain it’s not a bug and never could have worked. Everyone else points out that it does work on other Mac hardware. Person doubles down and tries to claim that the bug was that it ever worked, and not working is the correct behavior. New Mac OS beta release fixes the bug and makes it work. Nothing related to the repo was changed.

Comment by burnte 5 days ago

I loved the last comment where he inferred no one knew the difference between a MAC address and a Mac computer, meanwhile he's fundamentally misunderstanding how networking works and making bizarre statements about wifi that literally everyone disagreed with him on. I bet he's still insisting he was right even though it's all fixed now because he doesn't get how VM network bridging works.

Comment by fouc 5 days ago

Also classic, someone finally jumping in with a full and insightful explanation. What a turnaround!

Comment by doctorpangloss 6 days ago

remember how there used to be people whose lifestyle was answering Stack Overflow questions? 3 years from now we're going to be looking at charts showing engagement from GitHub Lifestyle people going straight down too.

Comment by lloydatkinson 6 days ago

Like that probably still open huge github issue with hundreds of comments, the one about how docker will blow your firewall wide open.

Comment by montjoy 6 days ago

This is actually what’s interesting

Comment by subarctic 5 days ago

So, are they gonna add official support for this in the wifi standard someday? It sounds like the way that this works is a non-standard workaround

Comment by aurelian15 5 days ago

You might be looking for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_distribution_system

This is a standard way to form bridges in WiFi networks and does not require any ARP proxying. In practise this requires certain OS/driver/firmware/chipset combinations to work though.

Comment by eqvinox 5 days ago

WDS is not something a client/STA can ask an AP for, it's a different mode of operation. What you need is 802.11ak GLK (General Link). Unfortunately, that one also isn't really negotiable and never gained much traction.

Comment by altairprime 5 days ago

Buried in-thread, both macOS 26.6 and 27 beta have fixed the issue — has anyone studied whether they implemented this or resumed the old proxy arp method?

Comment by tosti 5 days ago

> the bug was that it ever worked

https://xkcd.com/1172/

Comment by naikrovek 5 days ago

Your assessment is inflammatory, to my eyes.

Everything that person said was factually correct. They weren’t wrong, they simply didn’t have the whole picture.

Comment by skygazer 5 days ago

But, they were wrong ... in assuming what they were saying was at all relevant. And they were so sure they knew what they were talking about and that it applied that they dismissed all the ample evidence to the contrary and also dismissed the, they assumed, delusional people pointing out the contradictions. Their initial misunderstanding was understandable given the overloaded terms but their confidence was poorly calibrated to their weakness detecting the misunderstanding.

Comment by SlightlyLeftPad 5 days ago

I’ve seen younger engineers (still very senior and capable but with quick tempers) make this mistake time and time again.

The funny part, to me, is that it all could have been avoided by simply saying something to the effect of “the APIs they call in UTM are Apple’s and there are no hacks or workarounds they can do at the UTM level. Any differences between the hardware are just that.”

The actual thread was wildly inefficient but if it hadn’t gone that way no one would have learned anything, including us!

Comment by billti 6 days ago

I couldn't get bridged networking to work with my M5 machine and VMs running on Parallels. This thread here would seem to indicate it's a known issue (with no updates or resolution :/ ) - https://forum.parallels.com/threads/m5-macbook-air-windows-1...

Comment by arjie 6 days ago

The OP has a thing that solves it for many: update to a beta version.

Comment by ArchOversight 6 days ago

The linked Github also states that updating to 26.6 works.

Comment by juancn 6 days ago

I love when things work out in the end!

(issue is fixed in the latest MacOS 26 and 27 betas)

Comment by TheqO 6 days ago

The M5 Pro and M5 Max support Wi-Fi 7 and Bluetooth 6 via Apple's N1 wireless networking chip, while the base M5 supports Wi-Fi 6E and Bluetooth 5.3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_M5

Comment by broknbottle 5 days ago

Without looking too deep, I bet their dext wasn’t exposing necessary configuration. I’ve seen this with other third party network hardware and dext, where it was missing certain configuration for bridging to work

Comment by whatever1 5 days ago

M5 networking stack is a mess. A lot of corporate deployments had to wait for Apple to patch up things

Comment by amelius 6 days ago

[flagged]

Comment by tecleandor 6 days ago

What kind of, ahem, "non consumer hardware" should I buy to run a virtual machine?

Comment by pram 5 days ago

A 15 year old Thinkpad is the HN approved machine for Serious Work.

Comment by sam_lowry_ 5 days ago

I only recently passed my good old T420s down the generation and switched to T14 Gen 2, the one that still has S3 ACPI Sleep Mode.

Comment by imp0cat 5 days ago

RIP S3 sleep. You'll be missed.

Comment by lostlogin 5 days ago

There was a good article here yesterday on Colossus.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49012309

Comment by ChrisMarshallNY 5 days ago

Beer->hold()

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/codebase

Comment by r_lee 6 days ago

you say that while I'm pretty sure the macbooks are the most popular laptop platform for developing software?

Comment by NeckBeardPrince 5 days ago

What hardware do you think Apple uses to build their "professional" software on?

Comment by amelius 5 days ago

Not sure but for CAD they use Windows:

https://www.reddit.com/r/engineering/comments/nd4ax1

> "Used to work as a mechanical design engineer at Apple. They use Siemens NX on Windows computers."

Comment by NeckBeardPrince 5 days ago

Yes, all Apple does is CAD work.

Comment by mcfdoesdev 6 days ago

That's super weird.

Comment by kazinator 6 days ago

Remember, if shoes were like software, they would explode while you're trying to tie the laces, because the first of the month landed on a Tuesday.

Comment by pjmlp 6 days ago

Unfortunately most consumers put up with it, instead of handling it like shoes, returning them to the shop for a refund, or if surviving the explosion, a lawsuit.

Comment by kazinator 6 days ago

Shoes today are garbage that wears through within half a year; consumers are accepting it and coming back for more.

Comment by hnav 6 days ago

As much as it pains me to toss shoes every year, I much prefer the light, flexible construction of disposable shoes to the heavy rigidity of made-to-last ones.

Comment by iamtheworstdev 5 days ago

Buy better shoes. Quit buying Allbirds and Hey Dudes

Comment by reaperducer 5 days ago

You are so right.

Shoes are one of those things where you get what you pay for.

Unfortunately, not everyone has access to quality shoes, either for reasons of money or geography.

I was given a pair of really nice shoes once. They've lasted me almost 20 years because I live in a large city where I can stop at a shoe shine stand every few weeks, and also have them re-soled as they wear.

Most people buy plastic junk from Amazon because they don't know better.

See also: People who work in offices, but still carry around a massive backpack like they're in sixth grade.

Comment by SlightlyLeftPad 5 days ago

Agree. I’ve heard great things about RUNLOWE and GOTOE. You can find them as the first 100 results on Amazon if you search for “Adidas running shoes.”

Comment by pjmlp 6 days ago

Depends, not everyone buys on street bazaar, and usually most that put up with low quality is because they sadly cannot afford any better.

Comment by mindslight 6 days ago

Half of a year is getting awfully close to the timeline of a many return policies, and most people do like saving money. Just saying...

Comment by somat 6 days ago

The Samuel Vimes Boot theory of economic unfairness comes to mind.

Oh wow, it has it's own wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory

Comment by ChrisMarshallNY 5 days ago

Too bad they don't give Nobels for literature posthumously.

That single paragraph could win it.

Well ... maybe I'm biased ...

Comment by kazinator 5 days ago

I actually have a pair of John Fluevog boots, circa 1999 vintage, which are scuffed but wearable. The most I had to do is glue up some rubber separation in the heels with a bit of epoxy. I wore them as recently as last year; not lately though.

Comment by HPsquared 6 days ago

I wonder how much of the "shoes used to last longer" thing is down to individuals getting older and heavier over time. Also time perception changes with age. It's probably still true, though.

Comment by kazinator 5 days ago

Two real, major issues:

- 30 years ago, you couldn't buy sports shoes (sneakers, runners, tennis shoes, court boots, whatever) that have only a foam midsole, no hard rubber outsole of any kind. A very light, foamy type of running shoe called a "race flat" did exist, but you had to go to a specialist store to find that. Without an outsole, EVA foam wears down fast. Stay away from these shoes unless you're looking to use them as bedroom slippers; always look for an outsole. If the shoe is not for a specific sport, look for trail runners, which have more outsole coverage on the bottom, often an uninterrupted one piece outsole.

- Most shoes today that look like they have a thick sole are actually hollow. If you peel off the layers of insoles, you see that the outsole is "ice cube tray" shell with voids. When the thin bottom of this tray wears through, they leak water. It just has to wear through in one spot, like the very back of the heel, and it's done as far as resisting water, and when it wears some more, rock can actually push up into the voids. All this can happen well under a year. I distinctly remember growing up with shoes that were solid, heel to toe.

Comment by phoghed 6 days ago

Analogy kind of falls apart when you consumers are willing to put up with quite a lot to save a buck. They happily build their own furniture for example.

Comment by pjmlp 6 days ago

Only a subset of them.