Perlisisms (1982)
Posted by tosh 2 days ago
Comments
Comment by isityettime 2 days ago
This one stood out to me. I'd say it's a favorite.
These others are interesting in the age of LLMs:
> 93. When someone says "I want a programming language in which I need only say what I wish done," give him a lollipop.
> 114. Within a computer natural language is unnatural.
> 115. Most people find the concept of programming obvious, but the doing impossible.
> 27. Once you understand how to write a program get someone else to write it.
> 113. The only constructive theory connecting neuroscience and psychology will arise from the study of software.
This one remains worth thinking about in terms of the consequences and costs of automation and computerization, LLM-powered or not:
> 99. In man-machine symbiosis, it is man who must adjust: The machines can't.
Comment by zahlman 2 days ago
It seems worth noting here that the English verb "to adjust" is ambitransitive.
Comment by NuclearPM 2 days ago
Comment by MarkusQ 2 days ago
So it's a somewhat arch joke than may not be apparent due to shifts in language usage. (Also, "man" in this context was short for "human" without regard to sex (which we now call gender)).
Comment by layer8 2 days ago
However, I think it's clear that the intended meaning is intransitive.
Comment by layer8 2 days ago
Comment by utopiah 2 days ago
Yep I have it in https://fabien.benetou.fr/Languages/Languages#MakingYourOwn and few other places in my notes.
I keep it in mind especially when I discuss about programming with non programmers, arguing that the point isn't to bend a machine to your will but rather to become a better thinker. Getting machines to do what you need is "just" an extremely powerful side effect. This is also inspired by Papert and others.
Comment by ebiederm 2 days ago
Comment by ink_13 2 days ago
Comment by isomorphic_duck 2 days ago
Comment by LelouBil 2 days ago
Great definition actually
Comment by dundarious 2 days ago
Comment by xn7 2 days ago
Comment by marcosdumay 2 days ago
Comment by hbcdbff 2 days ago
If something requires attention, it’s by definition relevant
Comment by munificent 2 days ago
Obviously, it's relevant if the language itself forces the user to worry about some pointless minutia. The problem is that the language created that relevance, when it is otherwise irrelevant to the problem the user is trying to solve.
Forward declarations are relevant in C because the program won't compile without them. But they aren't relevant in any meaningful way to any domain a user might be writing C programs for.
Comment by movpasd 2 days ago
Thank you for that line --- I may steal it :)
Comment by munificent 1 day ago
Our software engineer mindset tends to immediately put us in "criticize" mode and with social media comment threads, there's a tendency where a single correct critical observation leads people to discard an entire article.
But that's dumb. We should read critically, of course, but we should apply that in a finer-grained way so that we ignore the parts of an article that are wrong and try to learn from the parts that aren't.
There is often a lot of baby in that bathwater we are so quick to discard.
Comment by addaon 2 days ago
Not really. Consider an assembly language for a processor with a very orthogonal register set. The number of registers used by a block of code is relevant, but the identity of those registers isn't. That is, if the code can be written without spilling with six distinct, uniform registers, the choice of one of the 6! possible assignments of those six registers are irrelevant. But when writing that code, you still need to make the choice. And in real assembly languages, it's not necessarily obvious whether the choice here is arbitrary and unconstrained, or externally constrained (e.g. when choosing a mapping that avoids a move instruction by forcing the caller to pass a certain value in an agreed register; or when using an almost-orthogonal register set where it's unclear if later code cares that the value is left in a register that is also the possible target of a div instruction or something), so this requires attention at both write-time and read-time, even when irrelevant.
Comment by rpdillon 2 days ago
In this particular quote, Perlis is talking about relevancy to the problem. He's hinting at the difference between incidental complexity and inherent complexity. Inherent complexity is a property of the problem, and incidental complexity is a property of the solution. He's arguing against solutions that bring incidental complexity that requires attention to aspects that aren't relevant to the problem.
Comment by abirch 2 days ago
Comment by msla 2 days ago
Comment by kbenson 2 days ago
Also, many stupid or nonsensical statements can often yield wisdom if you meditate on them enough. Indeed, many (most?) zen koans are so simplistic that to get any usefulness out of them you have to insert you own assumptions and try to determine how it might apply.
Comment by skydhash 2 days ago
Each tooling set will bring its own irrelevant details. But you can rank them according to the amount and complexity of the irrelevant of details you have to think about.
Comment by rezmason 2 days ago
Comment by chriscbr 2 days ago
Comment by summa_tech 2 days ago
I think many of those are pretty subjective, and maybe not always right for everyone or for all time. But there are certainly going to be some universal pearls of wisdom, and neither of us can - by ourselves - tell which ones they are.
Comment by shawn_w 2 days ago
Comment by cwnyth 2 days ago
Comment by zephen 2 days ago
Comment by cwnyth 2 days ago
Comment by wredcoll 2 days ago
I don't particularly like, say, lisp, but I can in fact understand lisp programs or write them if I need to.
Comment by zephen 2 days ago
You are right that it's not that complicated, but like any language that I'm not interested in mastering, the amount of learning that it would take to create idiomatic perl is not an investment I'm willing to make.
And, given that none of the perl scripts that I was tasked with modifying were very long, I have always treated it, rather than a write-only language, as a read-only language; when someone hands me something in perl that needs to be updated, it gets recoded in something else.
Comment by shawn_w 2 days ago
Comment by dtagames 2 days ago
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Comment by skydhash 2 days ago
I don’t think there’s such people.
Either you’re writing a software for the first time and so the premise is not true. Or you’re writing it a second time and what would be the point? Just reuse the code you already have.
Comment by dtagames 2 days ago
Personally, I love "philosophy of software" questions like these, especially in the AI era. I write quite a bit about this on Medium:
Comment by skydhash 2 days ago
The technical aspect can be learned although you can stop at the top of the abstraction tower (the programming language and its ecosystem). The domain aspect encompasses the whole world pretty much. Contributing to Blender does not qualify you to review a Krita patch. You have to learn the latter’s code first.
Comment by fhars 2 days ago
Comment by summa_tech 2 days ago
Comment by dtagames 2 days ago
[0] https://medium.com/gitconnected/you-are-bugs-improving-your-...
Comment by jancsika 2 days ago
A good way to enforce this is to encrypt the data at the beginning of the process.
Then any function that returns structured data is clearly foolish and can be marked for removal.
Comment by geon 2 days ago
As you point out, I would prefer to parse a text string as early as possible, so that I could pass around structured data instead of having to parse the same string over and over.
That seems so obvious that I can't imagine what the author meant.
Comment by rpdillon 2 days ago
> 31. Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it.
Kind of close to "build the first one to throw away".
Comment by 0xbadcafebee 2 days ago
Comment by userbinator 2 days ago
Comment by DonHopkins 2 days ago
Did you ever have one of those days when variables didn't and constants weren't?
Comment by layer8 2 days ago
Comment by benj111 2 days ago
I kind of disagree. It may not be a very big or interesting program but a hell of a lot of useful stuff is done on spread sheets without any loops or anything but numbers.
Comment by jsrcout 1 day ago
That brings back some memories. Just glad I eventually learned better.
Comment by ripe 2 days ago
Seems to be a strike against LLM-based programming systems like Claude.
Comment by Sharlin 2 days ago
What Perlis probably meant that formal methods are useless unless you already have a formal specification. The formalization process itself is by necessity informal.
Comment by gwern 2 days ago
Comment by sriram_malhar 2 days ago
Comment by jdw64 2 days ago
Comment by LelouBil 2 days ago
Pretty relevant with LLMs and coding agents.
Comment by tenderfault 2 days ago