Pirates, a naval warfare game inspired by Sid Meier's Pirates

Posted by iweczek 4 days ago

Comments

Comment by alexpotato 4 days ago

This 100% has the "vibe" of the original game but should include that if you sail "into the wind" it slows you down.

Also, I've been trying to make a remix of SMP but with a princess theme for my daughters. Been experimenting with making other games to practice building out game mechanics and stumbled into making a game where you manage a Soviet Tractor Factory [0].

I'm interested to see if developing parts of Game A lead to Game B which in turn lead you back to interesting ideas for Game A (or maybe better Game C).

0 - https://alexpotato.com/games/tractor47/?l=hn

Comment by nkmnz 4 days ago

Is it even possible to win the game? I've played it 100 million times in a monte carlo simulation and even applied two heuristics to hit a winning strategy: 1. heavily over- or under-weighted choosing tractor production when paid tasks are available; 2. when a paid task was available in the previous round but not chosen, the weight for this round is reduced

The best result I've gotten is 998 tractors after round 120.

Comment by neonstatic 4 days ago

> Is it even possible to win the game?

If it's a faithful simulator of soviet economy, then you should not be able to win :)

Comment by alexpotato 2 days ago

I was tweaking the game and realized that the win conditions are really hard if not impossible.

I did seriously consider if that is really the best example of the Soviet economy ;-)

Comment by alexpotato 2 days ago

> Is it even possible to win the game?

Realized after I posted that it's probably really hard to actually win.

> I've played it 100 million times in a monte carlo simulation and even applied two heuristics to hit a winning strategy:

This is the MOST HackerNews comment ever (in the good sense) and it makes me immensely happy that this is the kind of feedback I received.

Btw, going to post a new version with some tweaks to the ruble payout etc.

Comment by 3 days ago

Comment by rmast 3 days ago

Maybe the only way to win is to cheat.

Comment by verelo 4 days ago

So, I love this little game. I've been wanting to remake Scorched Earth for years, just for fun.

Decided to experiment with this repo today, adding multi player, islands that can sink the ships (that the ships cant shoot through), and a few other things to the game. Anyone who wants to join, ill be in here in a multi player room that supports up to 10 people at a time: https://ndroo.github.io/pirates/?join=BP4Q

I also added controls for mobile users, because that was the first issue I ran into. Probably buggy, maybe not secure...but i had some fun with a friend a few moments ago and it wasn't awful.

Thanks for sharing this OP!

Comment by alexpotato 4 days ago

If people have feedback on the game, would love to hear it on the below link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48503530

Comment by tgsovlerkhgsel 4 days ago

That link doesn't work, so I'll respond here: My impression is that my ship always has a better turn rate than the other ship, so if I ever manage to get into the enemy ship's e.g. 4'oclock position, I can keep turning towards it, it will (slowly) turn towards me while consistently shooting behind me, and I can consistently hit it.

Comment by IgorPartola 4 days ago

I don’t see a way to succeed at this game. The issue is that there doesn’t seem to be a way to meet the first 5 year plan and it’s all downhill from there.

But this really points to a deeper problem: in a game like this you have to pick one of two philosophies. Either the idea is to find the one algorithm that makes it work because the game is doing the same thing every time, or the game has an RNG that makes some games winnable and some not. The in between path is difficult to balance. You could for example dynamically adjust the difficulty such that if the player gets hit with a bad string of choices generated by the RNG then the difficulty is temporarily dialed down and when the player is having good luck the difficulty is raised. But I think for this kind of turn based idle game it is more about discovering the player algorithm that works and I see no algorithm that could work here.

I do however absolutely love the vibe of the game. I think with a little more attention it could be absolutely amazing.

Comment by alexpotato 2 days ago

> I don’t see a way to succeed at this game. The issue is that there doesn’t seem to be a way to meet the first 5 year plan and it’s all downhill from there.

Yeah, some other folks have pointed this out so need to tweak the win conditions/balances.

> But this really points to a deeper problem: in a game like this you have to pick one of two philosophies.

You really hit the nail right on the head here. I haven't built many games before but this has taught me that it's really a rock/paper/scissor balance that is tough to get right.

> I do however absolutely love the vibe of the game. I think with a little more attention it could be absolutely amazing.

THANK YOU! I was totally going for a Soviet vibe and glad people like that part.

Comment by LearnYouALisp 4 days ago

Well, have you dogfooded it and how many times?

I have hundreds of turns on it now, at least.

Comment by alexpotato 2 days ago

Getting the feedback in the other comments has taught me that some more dogfooding would have been rewarding.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Comment by JMiao 4 days ago

my kid has 50+ hours in sid meier's pirates and told me they stare at the world map in their classroom and try to locate towns and ports in the caribbean when they're bored. i will show your game to them, though i am certain the first thing they will ask for is chain shot.

not to discourage your good work, but here's another project worth checking out if sid meier's pirates is your thing. https://tinywind.io/

Comment by iweczek 4 days ago

Nice, I still remember that map even though I haven't played the game in decades :) tinywind looks very cool, thanks for sharing.

Comment by tinywind 4 days ago

Thanks for the shoutout! Always love to see people building cool things

tinywind.io just added a new game mode and has a PvP and Steam release in the works :)

Comment by MayeulC 2 days ago

I also like windward: https://store.steampowered.com/app/326410/Windward/

Comment by JMiao 2 days ago

ooh thanks for sharing

Comment by MayeulC 1 day ago

I like Windward a lot, even though it does not feel like a complete game. It would benefit from a storyline IMO, and the dev has stopped updating it. I am longing for an open source project similar in scope.

Comment by madduci 4 days ago

This is really cool

Comment by dbingham 4 days ago

That was fun, but the AI and the balance need some work.

It's too easy to win as the small boat. You just stay ahead of your opponent and then turn back and strafe periodically.

It would be much more challenging if you added wind and realistic sailing dynamics. If wind direction vs sail orientation mattered to your speed and boat characteristics weren't as simple as smaller = faster then I think it would be much better balanced and way more fun/challenging!

Comment by dbingham 4 days ago

On further play, really the only match up where I had any trouble was large vs large. (As a side request, it would be nice to be able to choose your opponent!)

With both small and medium, you can just strafe back and forth in front of your opponent if you're faster than them. With medium and large, you can just circle them and absorb more punishment than them when you're larger than them.

Multi-player would solve the AI problem -- especially if it was more than 1v1 -- and then it would be more challenging.

But I would still request realistic wind and sailing dynamics. That strafing maneuver isn't really possible with real wind dynamics, because you slow down as you swing around and that allows the opponent to catch up to you and return fire. You could have a little arrow in a corner of the screen that shows the wind direction. You don't even have to make the sails movable, you could just have your speed be proportional to how orthongal your sails are to the wind direction in the simplest implementation.

It would add a whole new element to it that would make it much more challenging! :)

Comment by iweczek 4 days ago

Thanks for playing and the feedback. I plan on adding wind dynamics very soon. Letting you choose opponent instead of random should be easy. Multiplayer with more than 1 would be interesting, I like that idea!

Comment by Mtnh2o 4 days ago

Highlighting that game mechanics are hard - I struggled with your strategy but found it too easy to be the tank. Turn in a circle and shoot and rely on the higher HP + cannon loading.

Comment by dbingham 4 days ago

Fair!

Comment by idontwantthis 4 days ago

The cannonballs should have randomized elevation as well so that "raking" the bow and stern is more likely to get hits than hitting the side. Hits on the bow and stern should also do more damage. Cross the T!

Comment by matthewfcarlson 4 days ago

I just went into a circle and shot, won every time for every boat

Comment by stackghost 4 days ago

That's interesting, because I found it trivial to win with the largest boat. Tank one hit, lead your target, blast away. I remain undefeated with the largest boat.

By contrast I found winning with the medium boat required the most skill, and lost the first few times I tried.

Comment by carpo 4 days ago

If I remember correctly, the original was like this too. I always used the sloop and would often beat much larger ships.

Comment by chongli 4 days ago

Yeah so the other factor missing is gun calibre and ship hull reinforcement/design. The reason sloops didn’t dominate against ships of the line came down to these factors, as well as sheer number of guns.

A sloop’s guns were generally so light the balls would bounce off the hull of a ship of the line. The sheer weight of firepower in return would shred a sloop to pieces. Add on to that the fact that heavier guns can achieve longer range when trained at the right angle, and a sloop can’t really get anywhere near a ship of the line and live to tell the tale.

Comment by iweczek 4 days ago

I plan on adding wind dynamics. The largest ship has 1 more cannon, do you think I should add more? or perhaps longer range on the larger ship cannons?

Comment by chongli 4 days ago

Longer range would help! I should also note that ships had forward- and aft-firing guns in addition to the main batteries on the gun decks firing to the sides. A smaller ship merely trying to run away could be fired upon until it got out of range.

Comment by iweczek 4 days ago

yes, i also always chose the Sloop and would usually win.

Comment by franze 4 days ago

I started a thread if others want to show their AI coded games. -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48509243

maybe it becomes a monthly thing, maybe not.

Comment by flohofwoe 4 days ago

Unfortunaly only a demo of the ship combat system of Pirates :)

The actually interesting part for me was the historical setting, exploring the Carribean geography, watching the world evolve, all the while trying to keep the ship crew under control :)

Also we still need a proper 2D remake (the 3D-ified game console version from 2004 didn't really age all that well and has too many QTE gimmicks).

Comment by aidanbeck 4 days ago

One fun unintended mechanic: Because sailing off screen loops you around Pacman style, and because a browser window is dynamically resizable, you can use this to your advantage teleporting behind the enemy and taking them by surprise.

Love this!

Comment by HiroProtagonist 4 days ago

Sid Meier's Pirates on the iPad was a great experience. Bummer it isn't supported in modern iOS.

Comment by iweczek 4 days ago

I did not know that, I have an old iPad, going to look for it

Comment by JMiao 4 days ago

removed from app store, sadly

Comment by theropost 4 days ago

I remember playing Pirates on my 8086 in the 1980, mono-chrome screen, and I was amazed a a kid. Sid Meier's games were always a step above, and so immersive feeling for their day. I started a project from that too (one of many I suppose). I also was inspired by the KOEI games on SNES - Uncharted Waters.

It needs polish, content and more work but the kids like it.

https://ship-voyage-4zn.pages.dev/

Comment by JMiao 3 days ago

nice, thanks for sharing

Comment by alt227 4 days ago

Great game!

Reminds me very much of Overboard for the PS1 back in 1997.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71accvNZ0aA

Comment by sfRattan 4 days ago

I remembered seeing this game as a kid, but the name sounded off... And Wikipedia reveals it was released in North America (NTSC format) as "Shipwreckers!"[1]. It also featured 5-player local multiplayer if you had multitap, according to the article, and I remember most other games of the era supporting at most 4 players locally. I'll have to find this one and give it a try!

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overboard!_(1997_video_game)

Comment by pinchydev 4 days ago

Love it! I remember fondly playing pirates as a kid this is great!

I recently built https://navalstrike.app to scratch my naval warfare itch. Happy to share how I did lightweight p2p multiplayer with a super lightweight server handshake if you want :)

Comment by contingencies 4 days ago

Love the original. Some key tactics you need to pick up are: use a small ship, because if you are fast with the right technique nobody can hit you, and you can cross vast distances quickly without starving. Keep food stocked and limit large ship acquisition to a phase of the game in which you need large numbers of pirates for town invasions / large ship fights. Always sell extra cannons. Always buy the goodies from the bar. Upgrade ships religiously: you want all upgrades. In swordfighting, prefer rapier (speed with good reach) over larger weapons in most cases. Obtain new letters of marque. Obtain land after performing state-aligned duties by talking to the governors: this builds your long-term wealth. The easiest victim (given all other letters of marque) is the dominant state in the era (different eras have different mixes, but it's usually the Spanish). To catch the military payrolls, sink the escorts then damage to near 'strike their colors' before closing in for swordplay. Change to buck shot to reduce opponent count before swordplay without risking loss of vessel hull. Remake on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3920/Sid_Meiers_Pirates/

Comment by iweczek 1 day ago

Added a few enhancements over the weekend: 1. Wind dynamics 2. Opponent selection or random 3. Support for mobile and touch devices 4. Difficulty level selection 5. Sounds for firing cannon and ship getting hit 6. Survival mode for seeing how many ship you can sink with increasing difficulty

Multiplayer coming soon...

Comment by Daviey 4 days ago

Really enjoyed this and it brought back many memories of the Amiga, great job.

Two suggestions,

  - The sailing is a bit too nimble, it's possible to turn naturally.
  - It's currently possible to sail over/under the other ship.

When will it be possible to intercept and have a sword fight? :)

Comment by neuralkoi 3 days ago

I played the demo that came with Windows in the late 2000s when I was a teenager and became so addicted to it. Because I couldn't afford at the time to buy the full game, I stopped when the demo features ran out. This post brought me back and I can see it's available on Steam. [0]

[0] https://store.steampowered.com/app/3920/Sid_Meiers_Pirates/

Comment by sgt 4 days ago

I'm actually building a boat game for my 5yo son. We're building it together. I decided on using Love2d as the framework and I'm basically distributing a DMG to family and friends to run it and test it.

Comment by JMiao 3 days ago

lucky kid. please share it here! we'd love to help.

Comment by sgt 2 days ago

Thanks! I'll consider that, and I'll put it on github and allow others to even translate put their own audio/graphics on that's more relevant to your kid's preference. Mine is in Norwegian only (text and audio).

Comment by supertroop 4 days ago

“the emperor wishes to see you posthaste!” This immediately reminded me of the 1980s Apple game Taipan and of course it is playable online: https://www.taipangame.com/

Comment by itintheory 4 days ago

Huh. I remember playing a very similar game on Apple II, but I believe it had a Dutch / European theme, and was called something like "Ooperhoofd". I can't find any reference to it online. Maybe it was a 'modded' version of this? That one, and Odell Lake[0] were the best disks in the library computer lab in middle school.

[0] https://classicreload.com/apple2-odell-lake.html

Comment by taubek 4 days ago

I first played Pirates on C64. There was a paper version of the map that was a lot of help when you played and tried to find some locations.

Comment by CrimsonCape 4 days ago

It would seem relatively easy to tie speed to the direction the boat is facing. The more perpendicular you are to the 'wind direction' the faster you move. Or make the fastest velocity 45 degrees from wind direction, for a bit more realism. Basic sailing physics can add to the fun.

Comment by iweczek 4 days ago

Thanks for the feedback, adding wind dynamics is on top of my list :)

Comment by Jeema101 4 days ago

Illustrates the importance of 'crossing the T' in naval warfare before there were turreted guns. :)

Comment by simonebrunozzi 4 days ago

Lovely! Thankfully no one (AFAIK) has done a similar work with Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon Deluxe... Otherwise I would be easily spending tens of hours playing it. One of the games I have loved the most in my life!

Comment by itintheory 4 days ago

For some reason this made me think of Pirates Constructible Strategy Game [0]

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirates_Constructible_Strategy...

Comment by Apreche 4 days ago

At first I was frustrated because I didn’t know what the controls were. The arrows were moving, but nothing seemed to shoot.

Then I realized the space bar was shooting. You just can’t see the bullets because they are tiny black dots on a dark blue background.

Comment by iweczek 4 days ago

Thank you for the feedback! I'm going to address both points tonight when I get back home.

Comment by AnotherGoodName 4 days ago

This is exactly like a much older Apple 2 game called Old Ironsides fwiw.

On the Apple 2 it was 2 player only but a lot of fun back in the day. With an added ability to ram ships (pointy front into flat side one if you landed it before they sunk you).

Comment by 4 days ago

Comment by esafak 4 days ago

For me the watercolor imagery and music were half the game (Pirates Gold). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOPdsiOp5R0

Comment by iweczek 3 days ago

thanks for sharing the video!

Comment by pgt 4 days ago

How to shoot? I can't figure it out. Perhaps made harder by typing on Colemak.

Edit: OK, spacebar shoots, but it's hard to see the cannons flying due to low contrast. And it shoots in the direction of the enemy.

Comment by cen0b 4 days ago

Super fun! I'd add the ability to restart the same battle once its finished, kinda tedious to go back through and select the settings I want.

A product of my laziness heh

Comment by inasio 4 days ago

Nice job! Sid Meier's Pirates is one of my favorite games, wish they brought it back (I still play it occasionally, can't believe it never got a remake)

Comment by kevinmchugh 4 days ago

It was remade in 2006

Comment by Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4 days ago

Maybe like me that is the only one they've played. I didn't know there was an earlier one for several years.

Comment by ms_menardi 4 days ago

make it multiplayer, I dare ya >:)

(if you need this kind of motivation)

Comment by sudo-rsingh 4 days ago

Yup totally support that.

Comment by ceuk 4 days ago

What's the key to fire? I've tried everything

Comment by diabllicseagull 4 days ago

Space key

Comment by lencastre 4 days ago

I am not sure if my memory is mixing with 4D Boxing (!?) but I think if you took too long your pirate would be quite old and weak, or?

Comment by iweczek 4 days ago

omg, thanks for reminding me about 4d boxing! that was so much fun

Comment by hermitcrab 4 days ago

Fun. Maybe you could add some random features for a bit more variety. Shallows, islands, fog banks etc.

Comment by iweczek 4 days ago

Thanks for playing! That's an interesting idea, thanks.

Comment by k2xl 4 days ago

Fun but should have difficulty levels!

Comment by iweczek 4 days ago

Love the feedback, just wondering how to implement that. More difficult means your ship moves slower? you reload slower? your hits cause less damage? Need to think about that...

Comment by fsckboy 3 days ago

fun yesterday, but today there's 3 screens of answering the same questions with ever replay?

at least put all the questions on the same screen, this "modern" way is ridiculous

Comment by iweczek 3 days ago

just fixed that, it is all on one screen now

Comment by fabiensanglard 4 days ago

Nothing is moving on the screen for me :/ ! I can't pick the ship.

Console shows no error.

Comment by toxicunderGroov 4 days ago

Same here, using Firefox 151.0.4

Comment by iweczek 4 days ago

on a mac, windows, or linux? I have tested it in both browsers only on the mac but I don't see any reason why it would not work on a different OS since it is only HTML5 canvas

Comment by toxicunderGroov 3 days ago

Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 24H2

Comment by williadc 4 days ago

I also experience this on Firefox 151.0.3 on Linux

Comment by iweczek 3 days ago

interesting, what Linux btw, Ubuntu?

Comment by williadc 2 days ago

ArchLinux

Comment by san_dimitri 4 days ago

did you try arrow keys and space bar?

Comment by wizardforhire 4 days ago

Is there an unskipable minigame thats crucial to winning that majorly objectifies women and is beyond obnoxious with terrible animations and sound effects?

Because if not, I’d love to check this out… but never again in my life will I subject myself to that mini-game!

Comment by cbarrick 4 days ago

Please adjust the color contrast. I can hardly see the cannon balls.

Comment by iweczek 4 days ago

thanks, will do!

Comment by iweczek 2 days ago

ok, working on multiplayer, how many people/ships should be allowed at one time?

Comment by NKosmatos 3 days ago

Not playable on iPad, will try it on PC.

Comment by iweczek 1 day ago

should work now on mobile and ipad, are you not seeing the controls on the bottom?

Comment by zhoBEENG 3 days ago

Really enjoyed this, thanks for sharing!

Comment by atleastoptimal 4 days ago

I feel like difficulty progression would help.

Comment by iweczek 1 day ago

that is in now, check it out

Comment by monkeywork 4 days ago

Well done - that was a fun little distraction :)

Comment by iweczek 4 days ago

Thanks!

Comment by ez8 4 days ago

Good but too easy

Comment by iweczek 3 days ago

there is a difficulty level now

Comment by wolttam 4 days ago

Cute but I won first time on all 3 sizes

Comment by iweczek 1 day ago

try harder difficulty level

Comment by dmzxnico 3 days ago

It's cute! Push it deeper

Comment by RobRivera 4 days ago

I am the greatest

Pirate hunter in the world.

Comment by mgc8 4 days ago

This is pretty cool as a prototype, nice job! I'd say it needs some progression (one-on one to one-on-multiple, think 1xL against 2xS, etc.), as well as some more map variation (channels, islands, hazards like a giant whirlpool, kraken, the works). As a final shape, multiplayer would be pretty cool, but of course that's quite a bit more difficult... But I for one would be there for it :)