Let's Encrypt bans certificate usage in any US sanctioned territory [pdf]
Posted by piskov 8 days ago
Comments
Comment by CobrastanJorji 7 days ago
That said, pretty sure this is stems from the insane US legal requirement to not export SSL technology to enemy countries. I'm sure some of y'all are old enough to remember when web browsers came in "international friendly" versions that supported 40 bit encryption, or "fancy secure" versions with 128 bit encryption.
Comment by jaas 7 days ago
Most of our sanctions-related blocks apply only to the governments of certain sanctioned countries, not their general population.
This subscriber agreement update was intended to better reflect our legal requirements. It does not reflect a major change in the service we provide. Our compliance program does evolve over time, and part of that is communicating about it better in our terms of service. It's clear from some of the comments here that we have more work to do to make that text more understandable, we'll work on that.
> That said, pretty sure this is stems from the insane US legal requirement to not export SSL technology to enemy countries. I'm sure some of y'all are old enough to remember when web browsers came in "international friendly" versions that supported 40 bit encryption, or "fancy secure" versions with 128 bit encryption.
It doesn't.
Comment by morpheuskafka 7 days ago
https://crt.sh/?id=26878583197 (06/04/2026 smtp.star-co.net.kp) https://crt.sh/?id=20256841119 (08/11/2025 *.star.net.kp)
Star Joint Venture is the manager of the .kp TLD and one of DPRK's two email providers (the other is silibank.net.kp) [1], used as the official email for various government bodies ex. ipa817@star-co.net.kp (IP Office), kscost@star-co.net.kp (Sci/Tech Commission), ksf@star-co.net.kp (Ministry of Culture and Sports), mhs-ip@star-co.net.kp (Atomic Energy). It is also widely used by those universities and companies that engage with the outside world.
How did you determine that issuing a certificate to this domain or any .kp domain was compliant with the general ban on exporting goods and services to DPRK?
Comment by throwaway2037 7 days ago
Comment by morpheuskafka 6 days ago
You can see them all on crt.sh, because LE has to upload them to a CT log for browsers to trust them. (That’s how most of those subdomain finder websites work too.) The email servers seem to have gotten certs from a for profit CA back in 2015, but I’m not sure if they ever used them. Most of their webspace seems to be HTTP only. (And it’s a good thing, because some of their Apache versions are potentially old enough to have Heartbleed.)
The architects website has some pretty cool PDF magazines btw. They also have several websites for their insurance company’s (perhaps some intl org needs them to have a website for listing)—that’s a core hard currency stream for them and they previously have been accused of submitting false losses.
Comment by qingcharles 6 days ago
http://www.koreanarchitecture.gov.kp/index.php?kt=TWFnYXppbm...
Comment by FireBeyond 7 days ago
The agreement very plainly says otherwise:
> You are not a person or entity that is: (a) located in, organized under the laws of, or ordinarily resident in any country or territory that is the target of comprehensive U.S. sanctions
The general population of those countries are absolutely "persons" "located in" a "country or territory that is the target of comprehensive U.S. sanctions."
> communicating about it better in our terms of service. It's clear from some of the comments here that we have more work to do to make that text more understandable, we'll work on that.
This tries to frame it as a comprehension issue. It's not.
The wording in your agreement is actually quite clear. I think it's reckless, if not disingenuous to frame this as "we really only mean government entities".
Apropos of anything else, it's also not how US sanctions work - they are absolutely aimed at both the populace as well as the government itself.
Comment by undecisive 7 days ago
Obviously (to the rest of us) if the agreement says otherwise, then they're saying that it's LE that is forbidding the citizens of these countries, and it's not (entirely) the government's fault, which completely contradicts what they're trying to say.
We should probably be clear that this document is most likely a backside-covering exercise; it exists so that people can't sue LE for denial of service without a just cause, and so that the US can't prosecute them for intentionally shipping cryptographic services, or some such rubbish.
If you live entirely outside the US legal system, or its multifaceted tendrils, and if you don't make too much noise, you may be fine. Obviously that's a far cry from a "right to free speech" level of protection, but then LE have no obligation to provide that to people outside the US, and arguably non-rich citizens within the US lost that a long time ago.
Comment by Citizen8396 6 days ago
Comment by Citizen8396 6 days ago
This is not something that you apply for; a general license already applies to everyone. The legalese or restrictions companies use exist because they cannot (or will not) validate everyone is who they say they are. This obviously doesn't apply to companies who deal with controlled exports, where they are responsible for whoever ultimately receives the controlled export.
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
https://ofac.treasury.gov/selected-general-licenses-issued-o...
Comment by FireBeyond 6 days ago
Generally the software carveouts are very limited - it's not just "providing IT services or technology to individuals for personal use", i.e. Sudan:
> software updates for medical devices to Sudan
Indeed, of the software carveouts listed on that page, only two are not related to the operation or update of medical devices:
- provision of Internet services to the people of the Ukraine (read: "Starlink")
- provision of messaging services to members of the Government of Venezuela.
Comment by jstanley 7 days ago
Comment by necovek 6 days ago
Comment by chme 7 days ago
Comment by rootnod3 7 days ago
Comment by CobrastanJorji 7 days ago
Comment by notamario 7 days ago
Comment by jaas 7 days ago
Comment by marcus_holmes 7 days ago
Wouldn't the more rational response to this legal situation be to leave the USA and move somewhere more willing to respect international law?
[0] https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/impo...
Comment by BLKNSLVR 7 days ago
Soon they might be pushing for Operating Systems to gather political party preference information, so they can know who should be restricted from the use of strong encryption. The options being:
1. I love america
2. Radical left looney
3. Neither male nor female.
4. Those that tremble as if they were mad[0]
[0]: https://thewhippet.org/the-whippet-134-those-that-tremble/#c...
Comment by marcus_holmes 7 days ago
Comment by ndsipa_pomu 7 days ago
Comment by bawolff 7 days ago
Some of these sanctions are required by international law (i.e. sanctions imposed by UNSC). For the other ones, international law generally lets countries have whatever trade policy they see fit including sanctions, unless they violate some other rule of international law or treaty obligation.
Comment by marcus_holmes 7 days ago
The USA signed the Rome Statute but never ratified it, and then withdrew its signatory status. There's an argument to be made that there was a treaty obligation there, but it's pretty weak.
Comment by bawolff 7 days ago
I think article 18(a) of the vienna convention of the law of treaties means that once you withdraw your signature, you no longer have any obligations in regards to the treaty.
Maybe you could make some sort of argument that the sanctions violate the purpose of the geneva convention as they are designed to prevent bringing to justice people accused of grave breaches of the geneva convention. Like its an attempt to frustrate the application of article 49 of the first geneva convention [Ianal]
Comment by JuniperMesos 7 days ago
Comment by fc417fc802 7 days ago
Comment by hdgvhicv 7 days ago
Comment by cpud36 5 days ago
> Most of our sanctions-related blocks apply only to the governments of certain sanctioned countries, not their general population.
It doesn't work that way.
Blocking governments from getting certs doesn't hurt them in the slightest. The government can just create their own pki.
But it hurts the general population instead. People do not live in vacuum, they still need to access government sites. And thus people are forced to install root certificates of questionable trust.
When Let's Encrypt blocks government entities, it instead puts respective vulnerable population in even less secure environment.
Although, given the current events, I am not sure Let's Encrypt continues to deserve the trust it had.
Comment by loloquwowndueo 7 days ago
Comment by dsl 7 days ago
This is most likely OFAC. Lets Encrypt could apply for a license to do business with sanctioned entities, and given their use case it would most likely be approved.
Comment by greyface- 7 days ago
Comment by 10000truths 7 days ago
Comment by greyface- 7 days ago
Comment by thayne 7 days ago
I disagree with that ruling, and I have some serious problems with sanctions against entire countries/regions, but it definitely makes sense that LE would interpret it as being impacted by OFAC.
Comment by morpheuskafka 6 days ago
Now, does this serve a policy purpose? Perhaps not--US computers trust plenty of non-US CAs that could continue to serve these customers. But that's not how comprehensive sanctions are set up, they are effectively a complete embargo.
A better question is whether telecom carveouts (general licenses) in the sanctions may allow this. That is a country by country question as each one is worded differently.
Comment by greyface- 6 days ago
Comment by throwaway2037 7 days ago
And here: https://github.blog/news-insights/policy-news-and-insights/a...
Comment by amluto 7 days ago
In an alternate universe, Let’s Encrypt has a chat with someone and then states, publicly, like a speech, that they think that person owns a domain.
In our universe, Let’s Encrypt lets a client open an “account”, enters into a contract with the client (the contract is the topic of this entire post), and gives the client an API by which the client requests a certificate. Then Let’s Encrypt grants the certificate. Maybe the certificate is somehow speech. The rest sure doesn’t sound like speech to me.
Comment by tbrownaw 7 days ago
Comment by rzerowan 7 days ago
Comment by thayne 7 days ago
Comment by PalmPilotProMax 7 days ago
Comment by xxpor 7 days ago
Comment by throwaway2037 7 days ago
> Open source standards provide great benefits to U.S. taxpayers in reducing the cost of advanced military system development, and also increases security by allowing the government to build their own trusted implementations at low cost.
You can read more about it here: https://riscv.org/about/ -> See section "DARPA Influence"About their move to Switzerland, they say:
> RISC-V International has not incorporated in Switzerland based on any one country, company, government, or event. This move is reflective of community concern and managing strategic risk for our community investing in RISC-V for the next 50+ years.Comment by mschuster91 7 days ago
Comment by xxpor 7 days ago
Comment by ifwinterco 7 days ago
One is the mirror image of the other and neither economy can exist in its current state in isolation.
So China has the US over a barrel when it comes to actually building stuff, rare earths and all of that, but equally US sanctions still have real bite (a lot more than China would like) because China does have to do a huge amount of international trade to export and externalise its surpluses.
They're stuck in this unhappy marriage
Comment by re-thc 7 days ago
Who says they’re stuck or unhappy?
This is politics. We’re all just bait. In reality they’re friends.
US and China have made more gains by pretending to be enemies than friends and they likely plotted it all together.
Comment by GoblinSlayer 7 days ago
Comment by bigiain 7 days ago
http://www.cypherspace.org/adam/uk-shirt.html
A t-shirt with a Perl script that implemented RSA encryption strong enough to be technically illegal to export from the US.
(I must sadly admit to being too cowardly/sensible to have taken that shirt to the US in the late 90s...)
Comment by tolciho 7 days ago
OpenBSD being based in Canada ships strong crypto, but has had a sometimes troubled relationship with certain regimes.
Comment by dd8601fn 7 days ago
Comment by greyface- 7 days ago
Comment by wodenokoto 7 days ago
If complying with the law gets in the way of the mission I’m not sure that counts as a change to the mission.
Comment by Supermancho 7 days ago
It's already illegal to use in NK, but if it's the US, well it's time to steer the mission around it? Gross.
Comment by wodenokoto 7 days ago
Should NRA hand out guns to everyone who can’t get a permit where permits are required? Of course not. If they are against gun permits they have to fight the law, not break it.
Comment by Supermancho 6 days ago
That is a specific US-internal stance.
There's a list of organizations that started in the US, ultimately having had to work around the US legal system, in pursuit of their missions:
re Planned Parenthood Global, WikiLeaks, International Campaign to Ban Landmines, Center for Reproductive Rights, selected programs of the Human Rights Campaign Foundation, et al
Comment by jjav 7 days ago
TLS is awesome, one of the most valuable developments in Internet history. But, it is important to undewrstand that it is a double edged sword. Requiring a CA, which in practical terms means requiring a publicly known CA, is a choke point of freedom.
Comment by __s 7 days ago
tattoo yourself with crypto code to become munitions
Comment by p0w3n3d 7 days ago
to not export SSL technology to enemy countries
sounds like to not export mathematicsComment by bhhaskin 7 days ago
Comment by lxgr 7 days ago
They might be compelled to issue a certificate to an unauthorized (by browser PKI policies, not local law) entity, but that would be very conspicuous due to Certificate Transparency.
Comment by firefax 7 days ago
Comment by jcranmer 7 days ago
Comment by gopher_space 7 days ago
Let me introduce you to the phrase "I don't see a mechanism."
Comment by firefax 7 days ago
I'm not familiar with this phrase, but I think I did a good job citing a comparable example in my original post.
Comment by lonjil 7 days ago
Things that definitely don't happen. Those same encryption standards are used by the US military, and the international cryptography community can pretty readily rule out keyed backdoors.
The thought that supercomputers could break Internet encryption by brute force is laughable. One would have to be innumerate to think such a thing.
Comment by firefax 1 day ago
Citation please? There's been documented instances of exactly that, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Comment by throwaway85825 7 days ago
Comment by Izmaki 7 days ago
Anonymity and encrypted communication are two very, very different things. Have one but not the other and you're essentially handing off your private data incl. passwords to whoever that has a tap on the communication between you and the server can fetch them, too. Have the other but not the one and everyone will know who you are, but they can't eavesdrop.
Comment by firefax 7 days ago
Comment by throwaway85825 7 days ago
Comment by golem14 7 days ago
Google had a similar dilemma - do they want to offer a (censored) service in China, and have a hope of keeping some marketshare, or not (and be kicked out immediately).
In this case though, it seems to be an unforced move by letsencrypt ? Or was it compelled by LEAs?
Comment by idoubtit 8 days ago
Because they're betraying their own goals, as stated in their About page: “It is a service run for the public’s benefit. [...] Anyone who owns a domain name can use Let’s Encrypt to obtain a trusted certificate at zero cost. [...] Let’s Encrypt is a joint effort to benefit the community, beyond the control of any one organization.” Now they own they are under the control of a political organization.
Here is the paragraph Let's Encrypt added to their Subscription Agreement on 2026-06-04:
> You are not a person or entity that is:
> (a) located in, organized under the laws of, or ordinarily resident in any country or territory that is the target of comprehensive U.S. sanctions;
> (b) a prohibited or restricted party under U.S. or other applicable sanctions and export control laws and regulations;
> or (c) owned or controlled by or acting on behalf of anyone described in (a) or (b).
> You agree to use Let’s Encrypt Certificates and any services provided by or on behalf of ISRG in compliance with applicable U.S. export control and sanctions laws and regulations.
Comment by cassianoleal 8 days ago
Comment by cromka 8 days ago
Comment by mikeyouse 7 days ago
> "Across 2018-2019, the RISC-V community has reflected on the geo-political landscape and we have heard concerns from around the world that investment in RISC-V must come with IP access continuity to ensure a long-term strategic investment. We first mentioned our intentions to move at the December 2018 summit. Incorporation in Switzerland has the effect of calming concerns of political disruption to the open collaboration model. RISC-V International does not maintain any commercial interest in products or services as a non-profit, membership organization. There have not been any export restrictions on RISC-V in the US and we have complied with all US laws. The move does not circumvent any existing restrictions, but rather alleviates uncertainty going forward.
> In March 2020, the RISC-V International Association was incorporated in Switzerland. Along with this, we shifted to a new, more inclusive membership structure. Members of RISC-V International have access to and participate in the development of the RISC-V ISA specification and extensions as well as related hardware and software. RISC-V has a Board of Directors composed of member representatives as well as a Technical Committee of work group leaders."
> RISC-V International has not incorporated in Switzerland based on any one country, company, government, or event. This move is reflective of community concern and managing strategic risk for our community investing in RISC-V for the next 50+ years.
> The IP contributed and produced by RISC-V International is held under industry and global standard licenses that are already open to leverage by any company regardless of jurisdiction. This licensing is a common open source approach to foster collaboration that is not tied to any geographic regulation. IP in the public domain has not been subject to export control.
Comment by pclmulqdq 7 days ago
Comment by mikeyouse 1 day ago
Comment by Tangurena2 7 days ago
Comment by naturalmovement 7 days ago
Comment by rafram 7 days ago
Comment by marcosdumay 7 days ago
Or rather, when other countries say "sanctions", they are almost always talking about something completely different than the United States.
Comment by cassianoleal 7 days ago
It’s a bit like the US arresting your mom at home in Texas because you ate a baggie of magic truffles in Amsterdam.
Comment by rafram 7 days ago
Comment by cassianoleal 7 days ago
Comment by cromka 7 days ago
Comment by kube-system 7 days ago
The US has not "sanctioned" LetsEncrypt or ISRG. The US sanctions foreign entities as punishment for various reasons precisely because they are not subject to US law. That's the entire point of leveraging a sanction -- to pressure those outside of your legal jurisdiction. If they were in your jurisdiction, you'd simply arrest them.
People and organizations basically anywhere not permitted to do business with anyone your country has sanctioned. Anyone who does business internationally should be aware of their country's sanctioned list. That applies no matter where you live on the planet.
Comment by cassianoleal 7 days ago
This is literally about a company that has a branch in the USA and another branch in another country, where it's bound by that country's laws. If the foreign entity which just so happens to be commercially linked to the one in the USA has any dealings with countries sanctioned by the US, the US branch is punished.
There was a case a few years ago where a public University in Brazil bought lab computers from Dell Brasil. Dell Brasil is a subsidiary of Dell, but it's 100% incorporated in Brazil, the computers were manufactured in Brazil, everything following Brazilian law. The computers were delivered with terms of service that prohibited them from being used for any dealings with US-sanctioned countries such as Iran and Cuba. The University was caught by surprise and questioned it, since they had many academic links with Cuban Universities, and Dell Brasil explained that.
I don't know how the whole ordeal ended. The Brazilian Federal Government got involved, I believe the Ministry of Exterior and the Ministry of Commerce and Industry both got involved and were at one point going to sue Dell Brasil. I suspect it ended with the University returning the computers and purchasing from another supplier.
The suggestion that Let's Encrypt could work around US sanctions by opening a branch in the EU falls under similar conditions, and the US branch would be liable if the EU subsidiary had dealings with US-sanctioned countries.
Comment by kube-system 7 days ago
Comment by lmm 7 days ago
We're not talking about legal obligations in its home country though. I can buy Jack Daniels at age 19 in my country from their local subsidiary, and no-one thinks that this should be a crime for their US parent company because the US drinking age is higher. (Of course it would be a crime for either the parent or the subsidiary to sell to 19 year olds in the US)
(No-one is blaming Dell or Let's Encrypt here, to be clear, it's the US' excessive extraterritorial laws that are the problem)
Comment by kube-system 7 days ago
> I can buy Jack Daniels at age 19 in my country from their local subsidiary, and no-one thinks that this should be a crime for their US parent company because the US drinking age is higher.
Because there is no US law that says you cannot sell alcohol to people abroad under 19. Heck, there's no US federal law that says Jack Daniels can't sell to people in the US under 19, either. And in fact, there are some places in the US where you can legally drink at 18, e.g. Puerto Rico. But if the US congress wanted to pass one of these laws and enforce it, it could.
Comment by lmm 7 days ago
Comment by kube-system 7 days ago
But the US isn't really unique in applying their laws extraterritorially. See GDPR, Universal jurisdiction laws, China's National Security Law, etc... Every jurisdiction with sizable power does it. Some of these are even more extraterritorial in scope than US sanctions are.
Comment by lmm 7 days ago
Only applies to EU citizens' personal data, so while technically extraterritorial it doesn't feel like overreach in the same way.
> Universal jurisdiction laws
Rightly controversial when applied beyond things that are internationally agreed to be crimes against humanity, like torture or genocide.
> China's National Security Law
A perfect example of the kind of thing that the US used to define itself in opposition to.
Nations are sovereign and those with the might to push their requirements on others can do so. But I liked it better when we had a sense of the value of an open international order, where things like internet protocols were shared standards that everyone would collaborate on other than a handful of pariah states.
Comment by kube-system 7 days ago
Comment by lmm 7 days ago
Comment by M2Ys4U 7 days ago
That's not true.
The GDPR applies to the personal data of anyone physically in the EU, to the extent that the data are processed[0] while they are in the EU.
It also applies to the personal data of anybody anywhere in the world if the data controllers are based in the EU.
The reason why it's different to US sanctions/export controls is that the GDPR doesn't say you can't work with certain people in certain circumstances because of who they are in order to punish those people for whatever reason. It's fundamentally to protect the data subjects.
[0] which includes collection of said data
Comment by cassianoleal 7 days ago
At least in Brazil, companies that operate there must obey local laws. What happens when those laws are in contradiction with US laws, like in the example I cited? Is Brazil supposed to cave? Is Brazil supposed to keep fining Dell Brasil until it folds? Maybe prosecute Dell Brasil's directors for actively and repeatedly disregarding the law and fines?
How does that work on a global scale?
I'll say again, this is not about a US company opening a foreign subsidiary to do things in the US that are forbidden in the US. This is about a company incorporated abroad having to follow US laws while operating wholly abroad. This is a breach of sovereignty however you look at it.
Comment by kube-system 7 days ago
Yes, sometimes this causes compliance complication. This isn't unusual, it happens frequently.
Ultimately, every government exercises the laws of their country as they see fit, using the enforcement tools they have available to them. These rules often extend outside of their borders and apply to foreign or partially-foreign entities depending on the situation. The only limits on this are the practical means of enforcing it.
Dell Brazil would have been subject to Cuba sanctions because it was controlled by the US parent company. The US has obvious jurisdiction over Dell Technologies the parent company, and the nexus to enforce it.
Nothing you are are describing is even remotely unique to the US. No country is going to let you set up a foreign subsidiary to launder goods around sanctions law. If they did, everyone would do that and nobody would ever follow sanctions.
Comment by trumpdong 7 days ago
Comment by cassianoleal 7 days ago
As I mentioned, I didn't follow up on the story and in fact when I searched for it a few years ago, I couldn't even find the original articles any more.
Comment by drstewart 7 days ago
Comment by skissane 6 days ago
If they set up a subsidiary in Europe, they could be held liable for actions of European subsidiary.
If an independent org is stood up in Europe, with European directors, staff and funding, legally independent of US org, and the US org just provides advice/assistance to Europe org without ability to control it-legal liability for US org for Europe org’s decisions is less likely. Of course, ask a lawyer-but if you openly say “we are doing this to work around US sanctions” you could still be liable; if you say “this has nothing to do with sanctions this is about resilience of global digital infrastructure and European digital sovereignty” then under what legal theory is the US org liable?
Comment by trumpdong 7 days ago
Comment by mfuzzey 7 days ago
Comment by kube-system 7 days ago
e.g. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/sanctions-agains...
Comment by nozzlegear 7 days ago
Comment by drstewart 7 days ago
Comment by throw-the-towel 7 days ago
Comment by hparadiz 7 days ago
Comment by eqvinox 7 days ago
Comment by hparadiz 7 days ago
Comment by eqvinox 7 days ago
That said, they don't have to grab the satellite. They have to grab you. Computer vandalism/sabotage/... laws in a lot of legal systems already apply to the controlling people in their home location regardless of the physical location/origin of the computer activity. Your controlling the computer/satellite/botnet/... is the illegal act, not the network packets leaving those systems.
They'll have to identify you first though, which might give some legal shielding.
Comment by vova_hn2 7 days ago
Comment by hparadiz 7 days ago
Comment by vova_hn2 7 days ago
It is free only if you ignore the cost of getting the thing into the orbit in the first place.
Edit: also, AFAIK, normal microchips (without special radiation hardening) don't last that long in space
Comment by nozzlegear 7 days ago
Comment by throw-the-towel 7 days ago
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Comment by belorn 7 days ago
Let say someone created an Russian Let's Encrypt. It has all the technical aspects as regular LE in that you can request a certificate and get one through an acme challenge. That is all great and all, but no browser will recognize it as valid. No operative system will recognize it as valid. The Russian state might add the new LE as valid for government computers, but the real work would be to get any other participants in the world to do the same. The issue is not a technical one but rather a social one that is built on trust.
When Russia invaded Ukraine there was a major discussion if IANA/ICANN should have disconnected Russia from domain names and IP addresses. That discussion ended on a decision to not do that because the symbolic benefit was deemed minor compared to the harm to the system in large, especially once the war end. If you got two roots, then a domain name or IP address can now suddenly have two locations, and it would be a massive pain to try fix it even if people wanted to fix it. Certificate Authorities do not share this trait since there can be an almost unlimited number of roots and none of them can conflict with each other (assuming no hash collision). If Russia spins up a new CA then people can use that one today if they want to, and they can continue to do so after the war has ended.
Comment by orthoxerox 7 days ago
Comment by diimdeep 6 days ago
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Comment by Insimwytim 7 days ago
Russian quasi-government structures are spending quadrillion of rubles on a TSPU (censorship system) to spy on Russian residents, US ...helps them by making snooping on what is currently encrypted traffic possible by banning accessible encryption!
Comment by jaas 7 days ago
The terms of service update to clarify what we have always done, comply with relevant law, has not changed the situation for either country.
Comment by joshuaissac 7 days ago
According to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48457280 it affects all people ordinarily resident in those territories, not just their governments:
> You are not a person or entity that is:
> (a) located in, organized under the laws of, or ordinarily resident in any country or territory that is the target of comprehensive U.S. sanctions;
> [other 'or' conditions]
Comment by jaas 7 days ago
Let's Encrypt can issue certificates for non-government entities in Iran and Russia due to statutory exemptions protecting personal communications, alongside specific Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) authorizations designed to promote Internet freedom and human rights.
We will look into whether we can make things more easily understandable in the subscriber agreement.
Comment by thayne 7 days ago
Seems to be pretty clear that it would include non-government entities in sanctioned countries.
Comment by lioeters 7 days ago
Comment by Hundredth0006 7 days ago
Comment by jaas 7 days ago
Comment by john_strinlai 7 days ago
"You are not a person or entity that is: (a) located in, organized under the laws of, or ordinarily resident in any country or territory that is the target of comprehensive U.S. sanctions; "
this says nothing (edit: specific) about government (edit: only), and is applicable to normal people in those areas.
Comment by joemi 7 days ago
Still needs updating if it's supposed to only apply to governments, though.
Comment by saeedesmaili 7 days ago
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Comment by axiologist 8 days ago
Comment by belorn 7 days ago
Digital certificates that signs software packages are used to enforce exclusion by some manufacturers. Let's encrypt is not in that space to my knowledge, but it is a place where you the owner do not have the right to determine which certificate authority should be trusted, and generally the only one that is trusted is the manufacturer. Its arguable if we even should be calling such entities a certificate authority, even if they technically are the owner of the root certificate that signs the package.
Comment by hulitu 7 days ago
Wasn't Let's encrypt a Mozilla child ?
The real control lies at who defines what is trusted.
Comment by ulfbert_inc 7 days ago
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Comment by dijit 7 days ago
The involved ISP and respective governments do still see everything, but also cloudflare and the US ISPs they use see it in the clear.
Also the US has a history of abusing its position here, even with less honeypot like companies.
Comment by lesostep 7 days ago
Russian government issued their new root certificate years ago.
Nobody trusted it enough to request a certificate from them or install it on their computers. Including almost all of the russian residents.
If Let's Encrypt enforces the rules, as written in pdf, a lot of people would lose a choice.
Frankly, even publishing a statement like that would make the scales of trust tip for some.
Comment by LtWorf 7 days ago
Let's be real here… 99.99999999999999% of internet users have no idea what root CAs even are. It's the browser vendor mafia that makes the decision.
Comment by cpud36 5 days ago
Forcing is as easy, as blocking access to important services behind the certificate wall.
Comment by lesostep 6 days ago
that would be like *checks math* less than a human aware of root CA? Can't be right.
anyway, people living in russia are statistically more aware. There was a campaign after new root CA was issued. It was on a news, on the official channels, in the mail and on the posters. A lot of government sites begged to install them whenever you visited.
It's not like they released it silently.
Comment by thaumasiotes 7 days ago
Note that phones already try to prevent you from using a certificate that you provide yourself.
Comment by fluoridation 7 days ago
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Comment by theamk 7 days ago
With all the problems with Web PKI, at least the bad actors are getting distrusted, and this provides a very strong enforcement on the rest. And Certificate Transparency makes sure the mis-issuance would be caught. It is not perfect by any means, but things are getting better.
With DANE (or other country-issued certificates), every government will absolutely double-issue certificates to police, secret service and friends of goverment, and no one will have any recourse. (In the past I'd say that only countries like Russia would do it.. but with today's climate, I am sure both US and many European countries will do that too)
Comment by dijit 7 days ago
I have never worked in any company where I explicitly trust the CEO to always do the right thing in every situation.
There is usually no governance board, or review system to inquire about public harm: those things are usually external and fought against as they are regulatory burden.
So, in practice what tends to happen is that someone in the company just does stuff. Since humans aren't perfect this "doing stuff" is not always super enjoyable. If it's the CEO who "does stuff" then you're cooked because nobody except the board of directors can say anything meaningful: you gotta hope that the media wants to put pressure on.
Our elected officials on the other hand, are supposed to represent us, and thus media pressure is a lot stronger; issues that affect many people are meant to be properly reflected, and their decisions are open by default.
Comment by theamk 6 days ago
Comment by dijit 6 days ago
… browsers
… phones
… operating systems
… network appliances
… payment transaction systems
I feel like if it fails so often then it can’t be relied on.
Comment by toast0 7 days ago
Certificate transparency is nice. Browsers could require it for DANE certificates, just like they require it for current Web PKI certificates.
The people controlling the TLD of interesting can exert control over the domain of interest in order to issue a DANE certificate. But they can also exert control over the domain of interest in order to request a domain control certificate, so widespread use of DANE wouldn't add any new adversaries. If DNSSEC wasn't a mess, and DANE replaced WebPKI, we would eliminate the risk from CAs without adding a new risk --- TLDs (and the DNS root) are existing risks.
Comment by Parodper 7 days ago
Comment by toast0 6 days ago
CT addresses scoped attacks by making all webpki trusted certificates public knowledge. You would want something similar with DANE.
Comment by trumpdong 7 days ago
Comment by toast0 7 days ago
Comment by Parodper 7 days ago
Countries already have CA that issue certificates with more legal force than a handwritten signature. I can open a bank account, pay my taxes and sign up to all government services. But I can't use them for a webpage.
> With DANE (or other country-issued certificates)
DANE isn't a country-issued certificate. It's a scheme where you store your public keys on DNS records. Of course, now we have the issue that DNSSEC (signed DNS records) isn't widespread and the whole issue with DNS registries.
Comment by theamk 7 days ago
This would be pretty terrible if anyone actually cared about DNSSEC, but luckily for us, no one cares.. So let's keep things this way.
Comment by trumpdong 7 days ago
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Comment by xorcist 7 days ago
Let's not create a world wide PKI based on a political ideology.
> country-issued certificates [...] every government will absolutely double-issue certificates
This is such a strange argument. If you register a .ru domain, do you really think you are safe should the Russian intelligence services ask for a valid certificate? Controlling the actual domain, they could issue ask many domain validated certificates as they wish.
The problem with our current SSL PKI, as so very many people have pointed out over the years, is that any CA is allowed to issue valid certificates for any domain name. There have been proposals to use X.509 extensions to remedy this, but they have seen lesser real world usage than the various certificate revocation schemes, which is very close to zero already.
If there was no way for a Russian CA to issue certificates for .us domains, real world security would improve. A lot. And the other way around, of course.
Feel free to s/Russian/Chinese/ in the above argument or whatever tickles your geopolitical fancies. The argument still stands.
Domain registries decide who owns what domain. That is their literal role. You would think that asserting this ownership cryptographically would be a no-brainer in 2026. Yet we have this discussion over and over again. There are many people whose income quite literally depend on the status quo of our global SSL PKI, which coincidentally also offers no end of possibilities for the various intelligence services around the world.
The next time someone tries to scare you with that governments or intelligence services control DNS and therefore it would be crazy to limit issuance of certificates to them, take a look where they have contracts.
Comment by toast0 7 days ago
Some of the browser root programs include (or have included) restrictions on what tlds a CA is allowed to sign. I think for some of the iffier CAs that nonetheless had a huge marketshare in their country of origin.
No need for the CA itself to include it in their root certificate.
It would be handy if the name restrictions actually worked though. Then you could probably get a CA to sign an intermediate CA authorized only to issue certs for your domain(s). There are some CAs that will do that already where they provide an HSM with the intermediate CA's key that will only sign certs for authorized domains, but the CA cert does not encode the constraint and this is permitted by the ca/b agreement. It just seems like it'd be nicer if it just worked.
Comment by Parodper 7 days ago
[1] https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/sub-ca-with-wildcard-cer...
Comment by toast0 6 days ago
So that's not going to be free. But it might be possible to do it if you were big enough to pay for it. I have dreams of having my private CA also signed off on by webpki so apps and browsers could use the same servers without having to include webpki in my apps.
Not that I really work on such things anymore.
Comment by Parodper 6 days ago
Comment by toast0 6 days ago
Comment by gopher_space 7 days ago
There’s no essential difference between the two from my perspective. Why are these my only choices?
Comment by r-w 7 days ago
Comment by coldtea 7 days ago
Or so they say. How's that been working out in practice?
Comment by trumpdong 7 days ago
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Comment by coldtea 7 days ago
I guess one doing well enough can be oblivious to all this...
Comment by Parodper 7 days ago
An international body might work, or just move the issue one step back.
Comment by account42 7 days ago
Comment by theamk 7 days ago
And things only gotten better since - we now have CT logs, and browsers require them, so any mis-issuance can be detected automatically, by any interested third party.
If we go to DANE, we lose this all. "Oops, our CT uploader process failed, we will fix Real Soon(tm) we promise" - and what are browsers going to do? Distrust the entire country?
[0] https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2011/09/02/diginotar-remov...
Comment by JumpCrisscross 7 days ago
I didn’t realize the slapped their face on the pavement right after being acquired.
Comment by Fnoord 7 days ago
In the Dutch hacker scene, Diginotar was a meme. Everyone knew it was a mess there.
Comment by account42 7 days ago
Maybe we should have solve the ISP snooping problem by making that illegal instead.
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Comment by lxgr 7 days ago
If it were as cheap and efficient as TLS these days, yes, absolutely
> Maybe we should have solve the ISP snooping problem by making that illegal instead.
We could do both! ISP snooping is still a problem for metadata (SNI).
Comment by account42 7 days ago
Comment by lxgr 7 days ago
As for who does that authentication: Given all the suggestions in the sibling threads, I really don't think we're in a situation where there's a single entity gatekeeping access by any means.
Comment by kube-system 7 days ago
If you want encryption without trust, just use self-signed certs.
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Comment by kube-system 7 days ago
I suspect I may have a different notion of trust than you
> Most people using a browser don't even know any person from such an organization nor would or should they have any rational reason to trust them.
Back up one step further -- most people using a browser don't understand the problem set we're talking about even exists
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Comment by palmotea 7 days ago
I think the "digital tyranny" is a side effect, not the main goal. They're "mainly a means" to prevent certain kinds of MITM attacks.
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Comment by Igrom 8 days ago
Front matter:
- it is called a "Subscriber Agreement" and not anything that suggests that its scope is a single certificate
- it's a "contract [...] regarding Your [...] rights and duties relating to [...] Certificates" - plural
2.1 "Term": - "[the agreement] will remain in force during the entire period during which *any* of Your Certificates are valid" - plural
3.1 "Warranties": - "[by] requesting, accepting, or using *a* Let’s Encrypt Certificate" - pluralComment by trumpdong 7 days ago
Comment by m2f2 8 days ago
What's gonna happen if I were to begin or continue using one letsencrypt certificate from ... Greenland? Cuba? The EU?
Has letsencrypt been served with a subpoena?
Comment by tialaramex 7 days ago
While it's certainly possible that ISRG has been served a subpoena because it appears the US DOJ is now a mix of hacks and incompetent buffoons, it wouldn't matter because the whole point is that they don't know anything - what you told them is literally logged publicly for everybody to see without even knowing how to spell "subpoena" let alone issue one.
Some people have this insane idea that somehow the CA has some secret which either they minted and sent to the CA, or the CA minted and gave them a copy and so the US government could get this secret with a subpoena - but the whole fucking point of a Public Key Infrastructure is that we're using Public Key Encryption, if we were OK with everybody having secrets all over the place this entire thing wouldn't be needed.
Comment by basilikum 7 days ago
Looking at LavaBit^1 I really would not be so comfortable. The world and especially the US has not gotten more free since then.
Comment by tialaramex 7 days ago
So to be effective this means a hypothetical bad actor (maybe the US government or anybody else) issues bogus certificates, then either logs them - making a permanent record for everybody to see, or also subverts two or more logs, so that they issue bogus proofs.
This is a very expensive one shot attack on whatever the target would be, I guess it's not stupider than "Let's bomb Iran for no good reason" but it's up there.
Comment by basilikum 7 days ago
Comment by toast0 7 days ago
I would like to think at least all the high profile destinations have someone watching.
Comment by tialaramex 7 days ago
Comment by basilikum 7 days ago
The only one who can check for maliciously published certs is the entity authorized to request them. I think most companies are happy when they manage to have valid, not expired certs and do not care too much about making sure there are not too many of them.
You are right that if the state would start issuing malicious certs en mass that would be found out quickly. But I think very targeted selected operations against entities where they know the entity is unlikely to surveil for unauthorized certs are very much possible.
I'm not arguing for going into conspiratorial thinking and claiming CAs are all compromised and issuing malicious certs all the time. But I do think that it is feasible for states to use CAs under their direct or indirect control to run targeted attacks. I think that is a plausible, serious risk that we do not care enough about and that we should do something about. There is a multitude of precedence starting from LavaBit over the wiretapping of jabber.ru^1, ANOM^2 to CryptoAG^3 that supports this conclusion.
[1]https://notes.valdikss.org.ru/jabber.ru-mitm/ [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Trojan_Shield [3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG
Comment by tialaramex 7 days ago
In these cases it's really obvious if there's anything weird going on. You're correct that we can't know, as a third party why there's something weird. Maybe the server was being replaced and the new server just installed an ACME client and got itself a new cert last Tuesday even though the previous one doesn't expire for weeks. But if there was nothing we don't even need to ask anybody what's up - nothing is.
IMNSHO The statistics don't really work for targeted attacks. The odds you'll get away with it are unknowable and you only have to get unlucky once.
Comment by 8organicbits 7 days ago
There are red flags you can look for, but you need to confirm with the domain owner to be sure. CAA records can tell you what CAs are supposed to issue a certificate. Many companies always use the same CA, so a change to a different one could be suspect.
For the wiretapping scenario, domain verified certificates do not protect against that scenario. If the wiretap has full control of your server's network, then it can issue a certificate of its own. No need to compromise a CA.
Comment by nickf 7 days ago
Comment by toast0 7 days ago
LetsEncrypt certainly doesn't, but I've seen certificate storefronts that generate the key on their side and provide you the key and the certificate, so you don't have to figure out how to generate a key.
Comment by tialaramex 7 days ago
But yes, you're correct that, especially when "cheap SSL" was a thing, outfits which did this really existed. In fact one of the companies which did this, and then deliberately revealed customer keys, resulting in all the affected certificates being revoked, isn't even bankrupt so apparently their customers are so stupid than they're still paying money for a service that's much worse than useless. Not an optimistic thought about humanity.
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https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20250820-us-hits-icc-wi...
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Comment by rerdavies 7 days ago
Let's Encrypt becomes subject to US export restrictions on cryptography if they are a US company, or if they post anything to github or post anything to major app stores. Every app I have ever posted to Google Play has had to submit a form to the US government declaring what use they make of cryptography.
These restrictions have been in force since that late 1950s (with a long and complicated history with respect to computer cryptography). This particular text looks like a boilerplate restriction, that's required to comply with US EAR export requirements to me.
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Comment by ygjb 7 days ago
ZeroSSL from Austria also has a limited free tier. https://zerossl.com/pricing/
I mean really, if you use lets encrypt for anything that runs in a production environment, the responsible thing to do is build a fallback to switch to another provider in case LE has a bad day (or hits a brick wall and needs to say, enforce export restrictions).
Comment by daneel_w 7 days ago
Add.: I created an account just now to see "what's what" and also found the notice, "Activate your free 90 days certificates. At the end of the free year, the services associated with the certificates will expire." which sort of sounds like it's just a 1-year free trial.
Comment by pratyahava 7 days ago
Comment by trumpdong 7 days ago
Comment by mrweasel 7 days ago
The EU could easily bootstrap a Let's Encrypt competitor if it truly cared about removing dependencies on US based entities.
Comment by zajio1am 7 days ago
Comment by toast0 7 days ago
Cross-signed roots are common. Just takes money and maybe audits, but it's the same audit they'd need to get in the browser root stores anyway.
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Comment by pavon 7 days ago
It is more of an example of how the internet/software industry is too consolidated to the US, and thus other countries are too dependent on the US in those areas. If the internet infrastructure was well distributed, then people in sanction countries could simply get certificates issued by a different CA, and in some cases they can. However, this is complicated by the fact that the list of trusted CAs is dominated by US organizations (Google, Mozilla, Apple, Microsoft). If you want to reach western audience you must use certs from a CA approved by them.
Comment by ezbie 7 days ago
Then I graduated in International Relations and understood that the hole is much deeper than that.
Now it's pretty obvious with all the shit that trump has been doing, but back then me and much of the people I know were oblivious to what US power really means.
Comment by kube-system 7 days ago
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Comment by xorcist 7 days ago
Should the US wish to sanction the Hague, somewhat famous for its international court of justice, they would absolutely go after ISRG and it would not be enough for them to sever the ties of the hypothetical Let's Encrypt Europe. That would not be legal or last least highly questionable in most other democratic countries.
Comment by rwmj 7 days ago
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Comment by bigfishrunning 7 days ago
In all seriousness, as an American I'd love to see a healthier, more well-distributed tech industry, but I don't see many companies stepping up to provide competing services. It's my understanding that china has alternatives to many of these products/services, but I really don't see how anyone in Europe could possibly use a US-free internet.
Comment by Galanwe 7 days ago
Maybe because the US dropped most of its anti trust regulations, leading to ridiculously monopolistic practices such as "acquire everything that may be threatening".
Comment by bigfishrunning 7 days ago
I can only think of Nokia, purchased by microsoft in 2014. Those phones ran windows CE before that even, so you could hardly have avoided the american tech industry.
All I'm trying to say is, it's impossible for Europeans to both A) be on the internet and B) avoid the US tech industry.
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Comment by gapan 8 days ago
This is the main reason letsencrypt is so popular.
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Comment by em-bee 7 days ago
LWN has a good writeup on the audit situation as of 2014: https://lwn.net/Articles/590879/
Comment by jldugger 7 days ago
Perhaps because "US territories" are a thing, perhaps because it's way more newsworthy if LE bans the US, or perhaps im just a dummie.
Comment by 42droids 8 days ago
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Comment by ZeroSSL 7 days ago
- We’re based in Austria (ZeroSSL GmbH). The company was acquired by HID in 2024, which is part of Assa Abloy (Sweden).
- We’re not positioning ourselves as a purely EU-based CA substitute, and we generally don’t market it that way.
- For DV certs specifically, we act as a distributor. Under the hood these are Sectigo-issued certificates, similar to how other providers (for example Namecheap) operate.
Happy to clarify further if useful.
Comment by kruffalon 7 days ago
OK, but in the context of this topic thr interesting part isn't your marketing but your jurisdiction.
Could you clarify which jurisdiction you operate under and a link on the ZeroSSL website that collaborates that?
Thank you <3
Comment by ZeroSSL 7 days ago
Comment by hoistbypetard 7 days ago
There's no reason to believe they're any less subject to US jurisdiction than LetsEncrypt.
Comment by idoubtit 7 days ago
Sadly, their United Terms and Conditions in section 8.2 are even more restrictive than LE's. They reject any entity "located in, incorporated under the laws of, or owned (meaning 50% or greater ownership interest) or otherwise, directly or indirectly, controlled by, or acting on behalf of, a person located in, residing in, or organized under the laws of any country sanctioned under the laws of the U.S. or E.U." See https://www.sectigo.com/uploads/backgrounds/United-Terms-and...
From a layman point of view, it could even mean that the ICC and the UN are prohibited from using Sectigo. The Customer must have no "affiliates, officers, directors, or employees" that are on sanction lists, and the US have sanctioned some high-profile members of the UN and the ICC that spoke about the genocide in Gaza.
Comment by redrblackr 7 days ago
Comment by ZeroSSL 7 days ago
https://help.zerossl.com/hc/en-us/articles/360060119833-Rest...
Comment by orochimaaru 7 days ago
If they don’t have any business in the US and any financial ties to the US they won’t be subject to the sanctions. But I believe it will create issues if they want to enter the US market.
Comment by slau 8 days ago
HID was acquired by Assa Abloy in 2000. No idea whether that means we now consider it Swedish.
ZeroSSL used to be Austrian until their acquisition in 2024.
I used to work for a company that got acquired by HID. It looks like HID has retained their original offices in some form.
Comment by nomadwastaken 8 days ago
Don't get me wrong, I agree that there is some lack of "who actually runs/controls this", especially on the about page where I expect such things to be.
At the very least it's not as transparent as I'd wish from a CA. E.g their Certificate Agreement is from Sectigo, so are they involved? No mention anywhere else from what I can see.
Comment by 47282847 7 days ago
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Comment by slau 8 days ago
That’s a pretty steep increase. I would almost be more interested in a monthly fee per cert.
Comment by nomadwastaken 8 days ago
> By using ZeroSSL's ACME feature, you will be able to generate an unlimited amount of 90-day SSL certificates at no charge, also supporting multi-domain certificates and wildcards. Each certificate you create will be stored in your ZeroSSL account.
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Comment by matharmin 7 days ago
I can't comment on the EU part though - not that relevant in my case.
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Comment by DoctorOetker 8 days ago
is this standard MitM, or is it some crucially distinct variation?
Comment by thephyber 8 days ago
> Also known as a monster-in-the-middle,[1][2] machine-in-the-middle,[3] meddler-in-the-middle,[4] manipulator-in-the-middle,[5][6] person-in-the-middle[7] (PITM), or adversary-in-the-middle[8] (AITM) attack.
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Only to people who have a need to be offended.
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https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/why-issue-certificate-fo...
Comment by rswail 7 days ago
The US sanctions are imposed on entire nations (eg Iran), so LetsEncrypt have no option but to state in their conditions that their service is not available. They don't have a choice as a US organization operating under US law.
Whether they choose to enforce that through technical means (eg blocking IPs etc) is up to them.
[1] https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/complying...
Comment by greatgib 7 days ago
But in fact, little by little you have all the stacks needed to be able to isolate some entities from internet at the us request in a very short time
Comment by morpheuskafka 7 days ago
I am no lawyer, but while there do appear to be some exemptions for communication related services, it's not clear that this qualifies as LE isn't actually providing telecommunications, just a certificate file. And it's not even an issue of the encryption itself, North Korea is under a general embargo so any exports or trade whatsoever is restricted by default.
As an aside, many of North Korea's web servers appear to be old enough to have Heartbleed based on their banner versions, but most don't actually have HTTPS in the first place.
Comment by mrsssnake 7 days ago
On desktops browser displaying the fingerprint/hash requires clicks, on mobile is not implemented and on native apps practically not existing.
The keys should be shown, so they could be verified manually in person or via other channel. Just like the SSH do. Someone say people would just click "accept" without a thought, but the button is already here, just no information what actually is accepted.
Comment by guhcampos 7 days ago
When I read it, I interpreted it as "let's encrypt bans certificate usage in - any territories endorsed by the US". Took me reading a couple comments to understand it actually meant "territories under US sanctions".
Comment by niemandhier 7 days ago
But can we still trust them?
I am not well versed in how their systemwide certificate issuance works: If they have to add this to their terms to comply with their government, could the same government use pressure to leverage let’s encrypt to do harm.
Comment by trumpdong 7 days ago
Comment by ComputerGuru 7 days ago
I'm pretty sure a LE server hitting an Iranian or North Korean endpoint and validating a crypto challenge does not break any OFAC or EAR rules, and no money changes hands. And if a non-US entity wants to do it, the US would just sanction them. Microsoft and Mozilla are certainly not going to include a North Korean or Russian state CA in the root trusted certs (and if they did, the US government could just threaten them with sanctions, too).
Hard not to say "we warned you" about making self-signed certs completely unusable in favor of a very centralized approach.
Comment by gnunicorn 6 days ago
Comment by joemi 7 days ago
Genuine question! Because I assumed there were other places you could get a SSL certificate, but people in this thread seem to be implying that without Let's Encrypt, there's no way for people in those sanctioned territories to get a cert.
Comment by hinata08 7 days ago
No account, no payment, a single bash command or a certbot that runs regularly and you have your own globally recognised certificate
Historically, providers used to make the most frictions so that they could justify absolutely crazy fees for signing any certificates. It doesn't goes down well in DevOps, it doesn't work with indies who don't have 3 to 4 digits figures to blow in httpS, everyone including organisations ended up making certificates authorities of their own to sign stuff... and let's encrypt was successful at making certificates easy, free and actually secure
Comment by Fnoord 7 days ago
No.
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Comment by trumpdong 7 days ago
In reality of course you can probably just ignore this as long as you request the certificate from a proxy in a nonsanctioned country and you don't stick out to the government.
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Comment by trumpdong 7 days ago
Especially since sanctions are transitive. Mozilla and Google, being US companies, are actually not allowed to trust any entity whose purpose is to work around sanctions. Their members could go to jail for that.
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Comment by morpheuskafka 7 days ago
They also likely would have to implement some kind of domain name screening, just like banks have to block transfers that mention "Havana" or "Tehran".
They are currently not doing anything, even ccTLD blocks. They have issued certificates for .kp domains this month and in August of last year.
Comment by boomlinde 6 days ago
Comment by someguyornotidk 7 days ago
Iran and other tyrannical governments can easily set up their own CAs and force their citizens to use them. Iran likely already has this infra in place. This ban does nothing but highlights LE as the liability it is. The decades-old certificate authority scheme is no longer fit for purpose and needs to go.
If you're a web developer, consider offering your site through public key-addressable networks. Reticulum and Tor are good options that work today.
Comment by diimdeep 8 days ago
Whatever USofA, it's not hard to have their own cosmodrome and certificates.
Tangential, in 2026 website certificates feel like nothing, disposable automation artifact, toxic max-security[1], vehicle for those who rent seek, fingerprint.
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Comment by Dibby053 7 days ago
That's why many tech companies echo these laws overtly and with a lot of fanfare... They know they have no real control over who uses their services, so this is a way to signal their good faith and best effort in advance, in case they end up caught up in some foreign cyberbullshit.
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Comment by jalospinoso 7 days ago
The interesting version is that Web PKI is not just cryptographic infrastructure. It is also a policy distribution system. A browser trust store, a CA, a subscriber agreement, revocation rules, export controls, and sanctions law all end up in the request path of "can this site speak HTTPS to normal users?"
That does not make Let’s Encrypt uniquely bad. Any CA has some jurisdiction, owners, contracts, root-program obligations, abuse process, and legal exposure. Moving the CA changes the governance surface; it does not remove governance.
But it does mean "just use Let’s Encrypt" is not a neutral answer when protocols, browsers, APIs, app stores, or regulators effectively require TLS. The operational dependency is not only ACME uptime and certificate issuance. It is also jurisdictional continuity.
The hard product question is what failure mode we want:
1. Web PKI: power concentrates in CAs, browsers, and root programs. 2. DANE/DNSSEC: power shifts toward DNS operators, registries, registrars, and governments. 3. Self-signed / TOFU / pinning: power shifts toward application-specific trust and worse UX. 4. Multiple CAs: better resilience, but still bounded by browser trust stores and legal chokepoints.
There is no apolitical trust system here. There are only different control planes with different failure modes.
The practical ask from Let’s Encrypt should be clarity: issuance vs renewal vs revocation, existing certs vs future certs, domain location vs subscriber location, hosting location vs user location, and how they interpret “use” of a certificate. Without that, operators are left guessing whether this is a narrow compliance clause or a broad infrastructure-risk event.
Comment by snowflaxxx 7 days ago
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Comment by Towaway69 8 days ago
> 2. officially or formally ratified or confirmed.
> 3. penalized, especially by way of discipline or to force compliance with legal obligations.
So who can use lets encrypt? Those that are penalised or those that are confirmed.
Comment by thephyber 8 days ago
> [You certify to LetsEncrypt that] …
> You are not a person or entity that is: (a) located in, organized under the laws of, or ordinarily resident in any country or territory that is the target of comprehensive U.S. sanctions; (b) a prohibited or restricted party under U.S. or other applicable sanctions and export control laws and regulations; or (c) owned or controlled by or acting on behalf of anyone described in (a) or (b). You agree to use Let’s Encrypt Certificates and any services provided by or on behalf of ISRG in compliance with applicable U.S. export control and sanctions laws and regulations.
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Comment by hinata08 7 days ago
Europe starts to shield itself from the risk since Nicolas Guillou, the French ICC judge who issued a warrant against bibi got sanctioned (France officially protested about this case)
China is being successful at blocking US firms out of their supply chains (they already use Linux on Loongarch processors with some homemade architecture and pioneer RISC V), since a bunch of their companies also got sanctions for supplying the governement
US stands so much for freedom that it's the first country to refuse immigration to FIFA world cup teams and athletes, with Iranians not allowed to stay between games and Somali goalkeeper being turned away at the border. Germany itself didn't do for the 1936 Olympics.
So at best, they're only shooting themselves in the foot by showing any US component in a supply chain is a risk, while using US clouds were already a risk of loss of revenue from FISA requests to undercut your bid and rot your company and using US dollars for trade was already a liability
In the meantime, US companies can do anything, break any financial law and abuse every human right, they'll just sign DPAs to avoid prosecution
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Comment by hinata08 7 days ago
They also don't like states that threaten business by turning workers into a commodity that you have to compensate each month ; Spain sunk the Maine ; and they had manifest destiny given from God to get rid of natives
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