Entities enabling scientific fraud at scale are large, resilient, growing (2025)
Posted by peyton 3 hours ago
Comments
Comment by RobotToaster 2 hours ago
Comment by CGMthrowaway 2 hours ago
Comment by leoc 1 hour ago
Comment by throwaway27448 21 minutes ago
A crazy world we live in where Robert Maxwell's daughter is more notorious than he is.
Comment by LarsDu88 8 minutes ago
Comment by john_strinlai 1 hour ago
perhaps a bit off-topic, but what is coincidental about this and/or what is the relevance of Ghislaine Maxwell here?
Comment by benterix 1 hour ago
Comment by anonymars 1 hour ago
For example Donald Barr (father of twice-former US Attorney General Bill Barr) hiring college-dropout Jeffrey Epstein whilst headmaster at the elite Dalton School
Additional fun facts about Donald Barr: he served in US intelligence during WWII, and wrote a sci-fi book featuring child sex slaves
Comment by jl6 3 minutes ago
Comment by tialaramex 1 hour ago
Robert Maxwell was a crook, he used pension funds (supposed to be ring-fenced for the benefit of the pensioners) to prop up his companies, so, after his slightly mysterious death it was discovered that basically there's no money to pay people who've been assured of a pension when they retire.
He was also very litigious. If you said he was a crook when he was alive you'd better hope you can prove it and that you have funding to stay in the fight until you do. So this means the sort of people who call out crooks were especially unhappy about Robert Maxwell because he was a crook and he might sue you if you pointed it out.
Comment by bryanrasmussen 59 minutes ago
Comment by bartread 55 minutes ago
Comment by ramraj07 1 hour ago
Also who's funding you for replication work? Do you know the pressure you have in tenure track to have a consistent thesis on what you work on?
Literally every single know that designs academia is tuned to not incentivize what you complain about. Its not just journals being picky.
Also the people committing fraud aren't ones who will say "gosh I will replicate things now!" Replicating work is far more difficult than a lot of original work.
Comment by Bratmon 1 hour ago
More than anything. That might legitimately be enough to save science on its own.
Comment by benterix 1 hour ago
Of course I do! Not all of course, and taking (subjectively measured) impact into account. "We tried to replicate the study published in the same journal 3 years ago using a larger sample size and failed to achieve similar results..." OR "after successfully replicating the study we can confirm the therapeutic mechanism proposed by X actually works" - these are extremely important results that are takin into account in meta studies and e.g. form the base of policies worldwide.
Comment by smj-edison 1 hour ago
Comment by zhdc1 1 hour ago
Actually, yes, I do. The marginal cost for publishing a study online at this point is essentially nil.
Comment by recursivecaveat 45 minutes ago
Comment by chocochunks 25 minutes ago
I'm sure you can more narrowly tune your email alerts FFS.
Comment by notRobot 1 hour ago
> Replicating work is far more difficult than a lot of original work.
Only if the original work was BS. And what, just because it's harder, we shouldn't do it?
Comment by renewiltord 29 minutes ago
I believe people will enthusiastically say yes but that they do not routinely read that journal.
Comment by paganel 1 hour ago
This is partly why much of today's science is bs, pure and simple.
Comment by tppiotrowski 2 hours ago
Comment by MichaelDickens 1 hour ago
Comment by pfdietz 1 hour ago
Comment by LargeWu 1 hour ago
Comment by stanford_labrat 30 minutes ago
top on my list of things to do if i were a billionaire: launch an institute for the sole purpose of reproducing other's findings.
Comment by leoc 1 hour ago
Comment by pixl97 2 hours ago
With that said, due to the apparent sizes of the fraud networks I'm not sure this will be easy to address. Having some kind of kill flag for individuals found to have committed fraud will be needed, but with nation state backing and the size of the groups this may quickly turn into a tit for tat where fraud accusations may not end up being an accurate signal.
May you live in interesting times.
Comment by bwfan123 1 hour ago
Also, Brandolini's law. And Adam Smith's law of supply and demand. When the ability to produce overwhelms the ability to review or refute, it cheapens the product.
Comment by otherme123 49 minutes ago
There was this guy, well connected in the science world, that managed to publish a poor study quite high (PNAS level). It was not fraud, just bad science. There were dozens of papers and letters refuting his claims, highlighting mistakes, and so... Guess what? Attending to metrics (citations, don't matter if they are citing you to say you were wrong and should retract the paper!), the original paper was even more stellar on the eyes of grants and the journal itself.
It was rage bait before Facebook even existed.
Comment by armchairhacker 2 hours ago
If the fraudsters “fail to replicate” legitimate experiments, ask them for details/proof, and replicate the experiment yourself while providing more details/proof. Either they’re running a different experiment, their details have inconsistencies, or they have unreasonable omissions.
Comment by pixl97 2 hours ago
Comment by john_strinlai 1 hour ago
the effort to publish a fraudulent study is less (sometimes much less) than the effort to replicate a study.
Comment by wswope 2 hours ago
>>95% of the time, the fraudsters get off scot-free. Look at Dan Ariely: Caught red-handed faking data in Excel using the stupidest approach imaginable, and outed as a sex pest in the Epstein files. Duke is still giving him their full backing.
It’s easy to find fraud, but what’s the point if our institutions have rotten all the way through and don’t care, even when there’s a smoking gun?
Comment by awesome_dude 1 hour ago
Machine Learning papers, for example, used to have a terrible reputation for being inconsistent and impossible to replicate.
That didn't make them (all) fraudulent, because that requires intent to deceive.
Comment by itintheory 46 minutes ago
Comment by renewiltord 19 minutes ago
So the answer is that we still want to see a lot of the papers we currently see because knowing the technique helps a lot. So it’s fine to lose replicability here for us. I’d rather have that paper than replicability through dataset openness.
Comment by pjdesno 35 minutes ago
https://traditional.leidenranking.com/ranking/2025/list
and select "Mathematics and Computer Science", you'll find the top-ranked university is the University of Electronic Science and Technology of China.My Chinese colleagues have heard of it, but never considered it a top-ranked school, and a quick inspection of their CS faculty pages shows a distinct lack of PhDs from top-ranked Chinese or US schools. It's possible their math faculty is amazing, but I think it's more likely that something underhanded is going on...
Comment by temporallobe 2 hours ago
My eyes have been opened!
Comment by titzer 2 hours ago
Unfortunately I don't think a dialogue around vague anecdotes is going to be particularly enlightening. What matters is culture, but also process--mechanisms and checks--plus consequences. Consequences don't happen if everyone is hush-hush about it and no one wants to be a "rat".
Comment by qsera 2 hours ago
That is where being good at politics come into play. And if you are good at it, instead of being career-ending, fraud will put you in the highest of the positions!
No one wants a "plant" who cannot navigate scrutiny!
Comment by delichon 1 hour ago
I worked for exactly one academic, and he indulged in impossible-to-detect research fraud. So in my own limited experience research fraud was 100%.
It was a biology lab, and this was an extremely hard working man. 18 hours per day in the lab was the norm. But the data wasn't coming out the way he wanted, and his career was at stake, so he put his thumb on the scale in various ways to get the data he needed. E.g. he didn't like one neural recording, so he repeated it until he got what he wanted and ignored the others. You would have to be right in the middle of the experiment to notice anything, and he just waved me off when I did.
This same professor was the loudest voice in the department when it came to critiquing experimental designs and championing rigor. I knew what he did was wrong, because he taught me that. And he really appeared to mean it, but when push came to shove, he fiddled, and was probably even lying to himself.
So I came away feeling that academic fraud is probably rampant, because the incentives all align that way. Anyone with the extraordinary integrity to resist was generally self-curated out of the job.
Comment by dekhn 48 minutes ago
Over time I learned that most papers in my field (computational biology) are embellished to some extent or another (or cherry-picked/curated/structured for success) and often irreproducible- some key step is left out, or no code is provided that replicates the results, etc. I can see this from two perspectives:
1) science should be trivially reproducible; it should not require the smartest/most capable people in the field to read the paper and reproduce the results. This places a burden on the people who are at the state of the art of the field to make it easy for other folks, which slows them down (but presumably makes overall progress go faster).
2) science should be done by geniuses; the leaders in the field don't need to replicate their competitors paper. it's sufficient to read the paper, apply priors, and move on (possibly learning whatever novel method/technique the paper shows so they can apply it in their own hands). It allows the field innovators to move quickly and discover new things, but is prone to all sorts of reliability/reproducibility problems, and ideally science should be egalitarian, not credentials-based.
Comment by renewiltord 10 minutes ago
I have repeated it many times on this site but here’s the reality of human experience: if the rate of fraudulent labs is even as high as 10% you should expect that any viewpoint that it’s widespread would be drowned out by views that it’s not real.
Also, the phenomenon you observed where people are champions till the rubber meets the road is more common than one thinks.
Comment by mistrial9 2 hours ago
However, among certain departments, at large schools, under certain leaders.. yes, and growing
$0.02
Comment by russdill 1 hour ago
Comment by stanford_labrat 1 hour ago
firstly, there are basically no legal repercussions for scientific misconduct (e.g. falsifying data, fake images, etc.). most individuals who are caught doing this get either 1) a slap on the wrist if they are too big to fail or in the employ of those who are too big to fail or 2) disbarred, banned, and lose their jobs. i don't see why you can go to jail for lying to investors about the number of users in your app but don't go to jail for lying to the public, government, and members of the scientific community about your results.
secondly, due to the over production of PhD's and limited number of professorship slots competition has become so incredibly intense that in order to even be considered for these jobs you must have Nature, Cell, and Science papers (or the field equivalent). for those desperate for the job their academic career is over either way if they caught falsifying data or if they don't get the professorship. so if your project is not going the way you want it to then...
sad state of things all around. i've personally witnessed enough misconduct that i have made the decision to leave the field entirely and go do something else.
Comment by noslenwerdna 1 hour ago
Comment by fastaguy88 2 hours ago
Non-scientists often seem to think that if a paper is published, it is likely to be true. Most practicing scientists are much more skeptical. When I read a that paper sounds interesting in a high impact journal, I am constantly trying to figure out whether I should believe it. If it goes against a vast amount of science (e.g. bacteria that use arsenic rather than phosphorus in their DNA), I don't believe it (and can think of lots of ways to show that it is wrong). In lower impact journals, papers make claims that are not very surprising, so if they are fraudulent in some way, I don't care.
Science has to be reproducible, but more importantly, it must be possible to build on a set of results to extend them. Some results are hard to reproduce because the methods are technically challenging. But if results cannot be extended, they have little effect. Science really is self-correcting, and correction happens faster for results that matter. Not all fraud has the same impact. Most fraud is unfortunate, and should be reduced, but has a short lived impact.
Comment by qsera 2 hours ago
And finanacially too..
>Science really is self-correcting..
When economy allows it....
Comment by pfdietz 1 hour ago
Comment by robmccoll 1 hour ago
Comment by Atlas667 29 minutes ago
How many will see the connections between this and our capitalist mode of production? Probably few since modern lit/news is allergic to systemic analysis.
The blatant flaws of capitalism can't be ignored for much longer.
Comment by speefers 2 hours ago
Comment by gjsman-1000 2 hours ago
Some things should not have been democratized. Silicon Valley assumes that removing restrictions on information brings freedom, but reality shows that was naïve.
Comment by honeycrispy 2 hours ago
Comment by gjsman-1000 2 hours ago
The soviets may have rigged a few studies; but the democratized world now faces almost all studies being rigged.
Comment by honeycrispy 2 hours ago
Comment by niam 2 hours ago
Whether or not people will build resilient chains is another story, contingent on whether the strength of that chain actually matters to people. It probably doesn't for a lot of people. Boo. But inasmuch as I care, I feel I ought to be free to try and derive a strong signal through the noise.
Comment by leoc 2 hours ago
Comment by rdevilla 2 hours ago
The gate has been removed from the signal chain, and now the noise floor is at infinity.
Comment by qsera 2 hours ago
I guess, to convert it into this context, we can say that if you mix the high minded and infantile (which I think is what Internet and social media did), the high minded becomes infantile, instead of the other way around.
Comment by convolvatron 20 minutes ago
in no sense was it corrupted by the desire to include a larger population in journal publications.