How the Sriracha guys screwed over their supplier

There’s also the slopification of the internet to consider. The human centipede style pass through of a story across platform after platform means the same story appears again and again and again. And that’s happening more and more as time goes on. One YouTube video that generates a few hundred thousand views can spawn hundreds of other videos, posts, tweets, podcasts… all across the internet.

Only reason I mention that is that is you're not really faking the grassroots part if you really do have a good origin story--you just got... lucky?

[0] https://cases.justia.com/california/court-of-appeal/2021-b30...

You can spend your entire online life seeing ghosts of astroturfing in everything you read. Like, how do we know that Huy Fong didn't pay you to come here on HN to neg the Reddit story that makes them look bad? You're stuck trying to prove a negative: impossible.

There is a reason accusations of astroturfing are against the HN guidelines, and it's this: in the absence of evidence, anything opinionated could be astroturfing... or it could not. Which makes it completely useless as a heuristic. It feels like smart skepticism, but it does not actually add any substance to the conversation.

Upvotes cost nothing, and even if someone figures out the astroturfing, you just spend a dollar or two and bury them in downvotes.

One of my favorite tactics is just to use throwaway accounts to keep repeatedly asking variations of the same question "What x should I get for y?" and then consistently replying from my main shilling account with variations of "Hey, this gets posted ALL THE TIME but here is what I suggested previously and people seemed to like it ...". This way I can just keep recycling the same high-effort copy endlessly.

The reddit shills you spot are either lazy or idiots. There's no chance you'd ever suspect any of my biggest earning posts, simply because they're entirely consistent with the other content in the community and could have naturally achieved similar levels of upvotes had I just been lucky. But with bots I don't have to be lucky.

First, I want to be absolutely clear that I am in no way, shape or form affiliated with Underwood. I have no relationship whatsoever with them or any other hot sauce company, for that matter. I do not work in marketing at all - I am actually a disputes lawyer. I knew about this whole fiasco because I had read about/summarized this particular issue for my brother (a Sriracha fan) years ago when it first came to light, as he wanted to know what happened. The reason why I posted that writeup is because there was a viral post on the KitchenConfidential subreddit the day before about Huy Fong using green chili peppers due to supply issues, and I saw a bunch of comments that were all over the place with approx a dozen different narratives regarding what happened that weren't based in anything tangible. I wanted to write something to set the record straight.

Second, the details are drawn from the court case itself. They were not cut from whole cloth. Underwood had a unanimous jury verdict in their favor that decided that the facts I listed were what actually happened. What that means is that a group of (I believe 12, in this case) people sat down, heard testimony from both sides, looked at all the evidence, and found, to a man, that that was what happened. You can try to wriggle out of this as much as you want and deny it, which you appear to be doing by expressing some pretty strong skepticism about the whole thing, but we have court processes for a reason. Juries tend to be pretty good at fact-finding. Also, I would highlight that the jury awarded punitive damages - you do NOT get those unless the conduct on behalf of one side has been truly reprehensible, reprehensibility literally being a criterion for awarding punitive damages. The fact is, Huy Fong was held liable for fraud/breach of contract and had to pay damages accordingly. They appealed and got publicly eviscerated by the Court of Appeal. Those are the facts. I repackaged them into a more user-friendly, non-legalese story. You are entitled to have an opinion on those facts, but you are not entitled to just handwave them away.

Third, it is patently obvious why Underwood sriracha gets mentioned every time this is brought up. Huy Fong screwed Underwood - Underwood suffered quite a bit, but came back and launched a competing product. People generally want to support the underdog. It's that simple. People don't mention Flying Goose or whatever because Huy Fong didn't screw over Flying Goose. If they did, then they would.

That's basically what I wanted to communicate.

Do you think it's fabricated? You can read the exact same thing in the court judgement. It's barely any longer than the reddit comment.

If you also want 'alledged assholery' on that list, the list will just turn into a list of CEOs, due to false reports.

There is Glassdoor etc though for people who want to have their say; that all these platforms will be gamed and manipulated is a given.

Now of course within the rules of our society everyone should get a fair process. But these people are the ones who ignore and bend the rules the most and even have them rewritten. At some point when you play a game and you constantly have the other guy break the rules and bribe the referee to make ever more elaborate exceptions for them, at some point you just have to cancel the game and ensure it is never again played with that person on the field. They can watch from the sideline, but playing? Nope.

Now this should not target the occasional ethically neutral or even ethically responsible CEO, but I am afraid by that point it will be hard to have people see that difference anymore. It will come crashing down one way or another.

> When Roberts arrived, Tran told him that he was forming a new company. Lam was going to operate the company. Tran told Roberts that Roberts would be working for the new company.

> When Roberts declined the job offer, Tran was not happy. Tran told Roberts that Underwood would have to deliver peppers for $500 per ton to compete with Chinese pepper mash that sold for $300 per ton. [...] Underwood was suddenly facing imminent catastrophic financial consequences. It could not grow peppers for $500 a ton. Its costs averaged $610 a ton. [...] Tran refused to provide Underwood with prepayments needed to finance the crop. Tran also insisted that Underwood contract with Chilico rather than Huy Fong.

OK, 8 days after agreeing on contract (!), the Huy Fong man tried to hire away Underwood's COO (Roberts), pushes hard for price below cost, refuses to provide money for planting, and tries to offload responsibility to a shell company. This sounds about as evil as it gets, and Underwood was right to refuse.

And what does the journalist say about this? "He wanted to take over my business"? "It felt like being "stabbed in the back""? I am sorry, I think that story author was fed some BS by Tran, and did not bother to verify it.

(Alternatively, maybe Tran has a explanation that makes sense for him... I'd like to hear the thoughts of someone who walks back on contract few days after it's made, and how they justify it to themselves - but sadly that fortune story does not have this)

[0] https://cases.justia.com/california/court-of-appeal/2021-b30...

It's good to see the result of the court case, now at least we know who tried to screw who over.

So it's not so much that "sriracha is like ketchup" but just that you don't know the origin of the sauce. It's like saying "we have a lot of cola products in France, what's so special about Coca Cola?"

Now, if you were Thai that would be different story, as "sriracha" means a completely different sauce (and place) in Thailand, and thus more "generic"

My understanding was/is that Huy Fong could have trademarked the name in the US back then, but they chose not to based on the founder's humiity and/or naivete.

Somewhere around 2003(?), Sriracha (still only Huy Fong) became an Internet sensation and then very quickly there were a dozen brands available, all calling themselves Sriracha (legally OK), and often imitating the Huy Fong trade dress in sort-of subtle ways. Huy Fong pushed back on some of those imitators.

And then Huy Fong stopped being able to produce marketable volumes ("bad harvest" was the explanation at the time), and then it started tasting far less good, but still less bad than the others. Presumably this corresponds to their supplier change, which gives me a new appreciation for terroir.

I have never found another Sriracha that is comparable to Y2K-era Huy Fong. Modern Huy Fong is just OK. I don't think it would have become an Internet sensation if the product was always thus. I've tried at least 25 other brands, searching for that taste. So much disappointment!

I’m sure that in the Boston area we’d have had no trouble rustling up half a dozen or more.

We now live in Vermont. The options are pretty much limited to Huy Fong. Reese makes a vastly inferior product that doesn’t belong on the same shelf that can be found in some supermarkets. I know two Asian grocery stores (neither of which specializes on any particular country to my uninformed eye). They’re both small enough that they aren’t stocking hundreds of varieties of any single sauce.

So yeah. Credit to Huy Fong for capturing the mindshare with a quality product and getting available basically nationwide.

In urban areas its not necessarily too hard to find a variety of both. Going further out it'll get harder, so the brand presence of sriracha will often win for the spot of the sole Asian-style spicy sauce on the store shelf. Asian restaurants will typically have one or the other. I think a lot of Americans prefer sriracha partially because of the brand presence but also because of its smoother texture. Americans have tended to use a squeeze bottle for condiments more, having a jar to spoon things out just isn't quite as popular. Even things like relish, jelly, and sour cream these days are moving towards squeeze packages instead of jars and tubs.

I love that they had to buy chilis on the open market because their supplier fired the customer. Mostly because I’ve hardly ever gotten to fire a customer. Even when they really should have.

Now HF sauce sucks, I wasn't paying attention to this and got a bottle after this whole debacle, and it's horrible.

Since company leadership has a fiduciary duty to shareholders, profit-maxxing for shareholders is the only moral thing to do /s.

Meanwhile Huy Fong rooster sauce went from a nice red hue to a weird red green puke hue. If it was that color at the start, I’m not sure I would have tried it. The taste seems to be the same though. Regardless, it’s hard to support a company that’s lost so much good will. They should have just increased prices just like everyone else

Best hot sauce ever

“Red jalapeno, sugar, water, salt acetic acid, garlic, natural flavor, xanthan gum, sodium metabisulfite, and/or sodium bisulfite (sulfiting agent / preservative), potassium sorbate (preservative).”

I’ve had sriracha in the past and it’s disgustingly sweet. Apparently it’s 17% sugar!

https://fablesofaesop.com/the-goose-with-the-golden-eggs.htm...

Try it, it's fun!

https://successfulsoftware.net/2024/08/04/making-your-own-ho...

There is a place for simple hot sauces, because you don't want to add additional flavours. Sometimes all you want is straight up chilis.

More complex hot sauces might include dried shrimp, fermented soy, lemon grass, dried mushrooms, but those flavours might not be desirable in some dishes. And some dishes require specific hot sauces because they are an integral part of the flavour profile (Mapo tofu, Tom Yum).

I think the first time I tried it was about 15 years ago. Out to lunch at a bahn mi spot with coworkers and all the guys were drenching their sandwiches in the stuff. I think in that context it’s overpowering and awful and ruins a good sandwich. Preferentially, I love the Three Mountain Yellow Sriracha as a condiment for a lettuce wrap or a sandwich.

Where I feel red sriracha is a staple item is making sauces and marinades. Whenever I’m making vaguely Thai peanut sauces at home for a pad Thai or a satay it’s the #2 ingredient after the peanut butter itself and often at a 1:1 ratio. Combined with all the other ingredients it mellows out the harsh flavors and makes a wonderful layered sauce.

There are definitely better things out there.

Nope, also of garlic.

"I don't like $PopularThing" is always a boring take. Other people clearly like it if it's popular.

It is known since ancient times, De gustibus non est disputandum (1): Tastes differ, so it's pointless to dispute matters of taste as if there's a correct answer.

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_gustibus_non_est_disputandu...

The more power a person believes they have, the stupider they act.

Quoth wikipedia: "The jury unanimously ruled in favor of Underwood on the grounds of breach of contract and fraud."