Japan law opening phone app stores to go into effect

Posted by shlip 2 days ago

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Comments

Comment by linuxhansl 2 days ago

Nice. Someone is doing something. Apple's app store monopoly together with a 30% commission is a modern form of way-laying.

Meanwhile Google is trying to go the opposite way with mandatory developer registration/verification. In the US we will likely let them. Who needs freedom if there is money to make (and Google is just making a fake security argument.)

It shouldn't be that hard to do with my phone what I want, including accepting the consequences of my actions.

Comment by musicale 5 hours ago

> Apple's app store monopoly together with a 30% commission is a modern form of way-laying

Most of the revenue from the App Store is from games (often in-app purchases from "free to play" games), so it's not surprising that they charge the same 30% platform fee that Nintendo charges.

Epic would of course like to pay lower platform fees to Apple for Fortnite than they pay to Nintendo (or Google) for Fortnite.

Comment by esperent 2 days ago

> a modern form of way-laying.

The best phrase I've heard used to describe this is "techno feudalism".

Comment by bloppe 2 days ago

> But some public comments released by the commission expressed concern that the legislation could undermine user security.

I'm constantly amazed by how many people have fallen for this trick.

Comment by ChrisArchitect 2 days ago

Some background:

Japan to open up Apple and Google app stores to competition (2023)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36368735

Japan enacts law to promote competition in smartphone app stores (2024)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40662176

iOS 26.2 to allow third-party app stores in Japan ahead of regulatory deadline (Nov 2025)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45822302

Comment by shlip 2 days ago

JFTC's full 'Mobile Software Competition Act Guidelines' are available here : https://www.jftc.go.jp/file/MSCA_Guidelines_tentative_transl...

Curious to see how Apple and Google are going to circumvent this.

Comment by idle_zealot 2 days ago

My admittedly amateur reading of this is that while it does promote competition, it also explicitly allows what Apple is pulling in the EU with its signing/review requirements for non-App Store applications. So no need to circumvent, they still retain control over what code is allowed to run on iPhones, albeit subject to restrictions on what reasoning they're allowed to use to refuse to sign an app.

Comment by madeofpalk 2 days ago

How is it different to what Apple’s done in the EU, with allowing for third party app stores there.

Comment by pzo 2 days ago

It seems we in EU got the worst implementation for apple malicious compliance. It should have been similar like this one Japan from the beginning.

Comment by extraduder_ire 1 day ago

How does Apple's implementation in Japan differ from their EU one? TFA doesn't have many details that I see.

Comment by zb3 2 days ago

I'm waiting for the WebKit part - I remember this Japanese law also mandated Apple to allow other browser engines. The EU law effectively failed to enforce this.. I hope this will work better in Japan.

EDIT: more info here: https://open-web-advocacy.org/blog/japan-apple-must-lift-eng...

Comment by tekacs 2 days ago

I really hope that Japanese developers take advantage of this situation to show off at least some of the creativity that's possible when we're not quite as limited by Apple's restrictions. I don't doubt that from a 'security' point of view, Apple is going to continue to enforce all sorts of things that make it wildly more difficult to use the supercomputer in our pockets than I would like. But nonetheless, perhaps this gives a bit of room to be a little more illustrative.

I know that from time to time people have argued that jailbreaking should have resulted in more creativity if it were going to, but with that tiny, tiny market, it's hard to believe that many developers, relatively speaking, would have been able to go hard at building something custom and impressive. With this larger market, hopefully folks will get the chance to do that now.

Comment by Mathnerd314 2 days ago

how does this interact with Google's push to sign all apps?

Comment by idle_zealot 2 days ago

It doesn't. The law explicitly allows platform owners to require a verification/vetting process for applications, though it does limit the grounds on which Google is allowed to refuse to sign apps.

Comment by BrenBarn 2 days ago

What is the enforcement plan? What will the penalties be for noncompliance?

Comment by workfromspace 1 day ago

Thank you, Brussels effect.

Comment by dtgriscom 2 days ago

I misread the title as "Japan jaw-opening phone app stores to go into effect"... strange imagery...

Comment by websiteapi 2 days ago

Sony and Nintendo stores are still closed I see lol

Comment by socalgal2 2 days ago

Sony and Nintendo only sell games. They don't gate access to banks, investments, health insurance, auto insurance, news, movies, social media, car control apps, appliance apps, grocery stores, e-commerce, etc...

That's not to say Sony and Nintendo shouldn't be opened too but their impact is much smaller (game devs) than Apple (nearly all businesses)

Comment by al_borland 2 days ago

I just got a PS5 and there are bunch of media apps available. I was looking at moving my AppleTV to a different TV and just using the PS5 on that screen.

On Apple platforms, for most of the things mentioned, web apps are an option and don't have any restrictions. This was Apple's original plan, but the people fought for local apps. Now companies fight for space on people's home screens. If they get an app on the device they can get more info and send notifications and things, which they apparently love. A lot of apps these days are glorified web apps. There are also the ones that exist for a one-time setup, which then sit on people's phones for years. It's kind of a mess the way companies use apps.

Comment by dangus 2 days ago

It should be pointed out that they have way less of a monopoly on the market and way more gaming alternatives exist than Apple and Google.

Apple, Google. Two app stores that are basically necessary for existing in the modern world with a smartphone, which include apps covering Japanese government services.

In the gaming space, you’ve got PlayStation Store, Xbox Store, Nintendo eShop, Steam, Epic Game Store, GOG, a bazillion publisher storefronts, Apple and Google (again), Itch.io, physical media for the big 3 consoles at dozens of brick and mortar retailers, or even installing games directly with no store at all (Minecraft originated from its own online purchase portal).

Comment by ffsm8 2 days ago

> include apps covering Japanese government services.

These exist?

Honestly asking, I've never been there myself so my only contact to their government is via social media, and the Japanese people can't stop talking about how you need to go there in person for everything and how absolutely nothing official is digital

Comment by kalleboo 2 days ago

Japan has a government ID card (MyNumber) with a digital certificate which can be scanned using NFC on your phone to log into do taxes online, check on your medical insurance details (like what charges have been made and your prescriptions), and pension information. It can also be scanned via NFC to apply for financial services like credit cards/bank accounts online.

https://apps.apple.com/jp/app/id1476359069 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.go.cas.mpa

Comment by dangus 2 days ago

Train ticket apps

Comment by cocoa19 1 day ago

If anything, that’s their excuse for keeping it locked.

“Mr hacker man can trick you to download an app and take all of grandmas money from the bank”, “North Korean hackers can tap into your baby cameras unless we gate the app installation process and charge 30%.”, etc.

Comment by websiteapi 2 days ago

Apple didn’t start that way though. Better to open it up now no? Also, a better law would be making the web first class, not adding more stores, with other gatekeepers…

Comment by ghurtado 2 days ago

> Also, a better law would be

No, the better law is the one that exists.

Yours doesn't.

Comment by websiteapi 2 days ago

Laws aren’t inherently good though… we will see what this does for Japan, I guess.

Comment by bloppe 2 days ago

Are you implying that laws should never be changed?

Comment by charcircuit 2 days ago

The switch eshop has youtube which I would count as social media.

Comment by redserk 2 days ago

This does not change that:

- The Switch is primarily a gaming device for entertainment purposes.

- The eShop overwhelmingly focuses on providing games for said entertainment purposes.

- It can be assumed that the overwhelming majority of people do not use the Switch, or expect to use the Switch, for general lifestyle purposes.

(That said, I wish we lived in a world where the eShop wasn't the only way to get digital games on the Switch, but phones have evolved to impact a large segment of the economy in many ways)

Comment by websiteapi 2 days ago

It’s sad how arbitrary people define things. Just make all types of digital stores support alternatives. Why are you even arguing about it lol… there’s no excuse to begin with.

Comment by benchloftbrunch 1 day ago

No doubt Nintendo was involved in the lobbying effort for this. Back in the 80s they successfully pushed to amend Japanese copyright law to ban game rentals.

Comment by heavyset_go 2 days ago

Open those, too