Craft software that makes people feel something

Posted by lukeio 23 hours ago

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Comments

Comment by Schlagbohrer 5 hours ago

"So, I woke up today. Got my coffee, family went to sleep, and I have a free afternoon." What kind of schedule or different timezone does this author have with their family? I am trying to imagine a family that either goes to bed in the early afternoon or a person who wakes up in the evening to start their day.

Comment by leoedin 3 hours ago

His other hobby is anaesthesia?

Maybe a young child that naps in the day? That doesn’t really give a whole free afternoon though. 2 hours at best.

Comment by a96 31 minutes ago

Or family is the cat.

Comment by eps 58 minutes ago

Spain probably. Their siestas are as legendary as they are mandatory :)

Comment by lionkor 19 minutes ago

I think sharing software as free and open source should not be primarily about success, fame, money, or anything of the sort. It's about sharing knowledge and experience with the world.

It does not cost you anything to put your code on the internet; you don't need to use something like GitHub. You can just publicize a tarball. Its about sharing and giving, which is fundamentally not about you.

When people ask you to open source, they most likely want to learn and build on it.

Comment by pedrozieg 21 hours ago

There’s something refreshing about explicitly saying “this editor exists to delight me, and that’s enough”. The default script now is that every side project should either be open-sourced or turned into a SaaS, even if that pressure is exactly what kills the weirdness that made it interesting in the first place.

Some of the best tools I’ve used felt like they started as someone’s private playground that only later got hardened into “serious” software. Letting yourself park Boo, go build a language, and come back when it’s fun again is probably how we get more Rio/Boo-style experiments instead of yet another VS Code skin with a growth deck attached.

Comment by mghackerlady 19 hours ago

I'm very much for people open-sourcing their projects in terms of releasing the source code. Just don't accept patches or whatever, keep the repos closed

Comment by mirashii 19 hours ago

Unfortunately, and I think to great overall harm, GitHub does not let you disable many of the collaboration features. I was just having a discussion today with someone who would be fine open sourcing their code, but is uninterested in any contributions, questions, or community interaction. Since GitHub won’t allow that, their options are to host it somewhere themselves where nobody will see it, or just don’t publish it, which is ultimately what happened.

Comment by munificent 18 hours ago

I have a hobby game up on GitHub. The README explains that it's open source for people to fork it and file issues, but that I don't accept contributions. So far, it seems like that's been very effective.

We don't always have to solve problems with technology. Sometimes you can just tell people things.

Comment by matheusmoreira 18 hours ago

> GitHub does not let you disable many of the collaboration

I wish they'd allow making issues and pull requests sponsor only. Could enable a business model.

Comment by Yokohiii 17 hours ago

It's weird that this thread argues to keep the fun in hobby projects and you ask for the exact opposite.

Comment by matheusmoreira 17 hours ago

It's precisely because of the hobby nature of my projects that I want this feature. Support and collaboration are a lot of work. I have trouble conjuring up enough motivation to work on my projects as it is.

Comment by tacone 15 hours ago

I found working with AI as the code buddy to be motivating (ironically). You get to chat about the project, ask opinions and in general have somebody do the work you don't find inspiring.

AI often doesn't do things your way, but if your doing something for yourself you usually care more about the goal than the technicalities. Also AI working on a hobby code base is less prone to overcomplication since it basically copies what you've wrote yourself.

Comment by matheusmoreira 15 hours ago

I had a similar experience. Just chatting about stuff, shooting ideas and concepts back and forth with the AI is quite stimulating. I get to be an obnoxious help vampire without draining other humans of their patience and motivation. It's like having a developer friend with infinite patience to chat with.

In terms of productivity it's having something of a mixed effect. It gives me very clear ideas and direction but at the same time everything just feels done afterwards. All that's left is actually executing the tasks which is... Boring.

I'm not sure I trust ChatGPT to do it for me like an agent. The examples it gives me are never quite right. It's probably a lot better at generating frontend javascript code than programming language interpreter code.

Comment by Yokohiii 16 hours ago

Sponsors can have quite a bit more entitlement then the average github dude. But well, maybe if you lock it down for sponsors the stress level is overall lower.

Comment by matheusmoreira 16 hours ago

> Sponsors can have quite a bit more entitlement then the average github dude.

Is this some sort of unwritten agreement? When I was setting up my sponsor page, I explored the sponsor pages of other users for ideas. I don't think there were many sponsorship tiers with special features. Some people offered advertising space on the README, others offered access to an exclusive Discord channel, most just thanked the sponsor.

I'm still new at this so I wouldn't know. I only ever had one sponsor. Happened organically after my work was independently posted here on HN once.

Comment by Yokohiii 14 hours ago

Oh my mistake I was thinking of individual donations, which may be implied as some premium service. I think a company/org sponsor should be more professional. In theory you can just cancel a sponsor if it doesn't fit. You can turn your back on on donations, but you somehow owe the donators forever.

Edit: https://pocketbase.io/faq/

Look at the bottom, just an example how sponsors/donors may affect you.

Comment by zzo38computer 16 hours ago

I hardly get any contributions, questions, etc even though I have published them on GitHub (although some people do watch and/or star them, but I don't really care much how many stars it has).

I think you can disable issues but not pull requests, as far as I know.

It might be helpful to allow to disable pull requests too, and possibly to hide how many stars/watchers there are and hide the list of forks (people could still star, watch, and/or fork the repository, but they would not be listed on that repository if the display of those features are disabled).

Whether or not GitHub accepts these ideas, it can be an idea that other services (e.g. Codeberg) can consider adding such options if they want to do (as well as other things).

Comment by planb 5 hours ago

Or to simply ignore issues and PRs. You don't have to answer people for something you do as a hobby.

Comment by hnlmorg 17 hours ago

Odds are, you’re not going to get any contributions even if you do want them. So they could just upload regardless.

And if the README explicitly says the project isn’t open to contributors nor feature requests, then you’re even less likely to see that (and have a very valid reason to politely close any issues on the unlikely scenario that someone might create one).

The vast majority of stuff on GitHub goes unnoticed by the vast majority of people. And only a very small minority of people ever interact with the few projects they do pull from GH.

Comment by mirashii 14 hours ago

> Odds are, you’re not going to get any contributions even if you do want them. So they could just upload regardless.

This is not my personal experience nor the experience of a number of folks that I know personally. I think it's pretty hard to generalize about this.

> The vast majority of stuff on GitHub goes unnoticed by the vast majority of people. And only a very small minority of people ever interact with the few projects they do pull from GH.

So what? It's probably not going to impact you, so it's okay and we just have to deal with it? I reject that logic entirely.

Comment by hnlmorg 5 hours ago

> This is not my personal experience nor the experience of a number of folks that I know personally. I think it's pretty hard to generalize about this.

I think it’s pretty easy to generalise because public repositories are public, so the data is available.

The vast majority of repositories on GH has between 0 and 10 stars and no issues raised by other people.

Even people (like myself) who have repos with thousands of stars and other GH members “following” them, will have other repos with in GH with zero interaction.

> So what? It's probably not going to impact you, so it's okay and we just have to deal with it? I reject that logic entirely.

That’s a really uncharitable interpretation of my comment.

A more charitable way of reading it would be:

“Worrying about a minor problem that is easily remediated and likely wouldn’t happen anyway isn’t a strong reason to miss out.”

If we were talking about something high stakes, where one’s career, family or life would be affected; then I’d understand. But the worst outcome here is an assumption gets proven true and they delete the repo.

Please don’t take this as a persuasive argument that someone should do something they don’t want to do. If people don’t want to share their code then that’s their choice.

Instead this is responding to the comment that your friend DID want to share but was scared of a theoretical but low risk and unlikely scenario. That nervousness isn’t irrational, but it’s also not a good reason by itself to miss out on doing something you said they did want to do.

If however, that was really just an excuse and they actually had no real desire to share their code, then they should just be honest and say that. There’s no obligation that people need to open source their pet projects so they don’t need to justify it with arguments about GHs lack controls. They can just said “I don’t want my code public” and that’s a good enough reason itself.

Comment by Lammy 17 hours ago

I use an Action to auto-close any Issue or PR in my hobby repo for same reason: https://github.com/marketplace/actions/repo-lockdown

Comment by zzo38computer 16 hours ago

I use GitHub Actions to affect issues and pull requests also, but to assign them to myself (so that they are visible in searches), not to close them. However, for some reason it does not seem to work properly for pull requests, even though it works for issues.

Comment by mghackerlady 17 hours ago

The obvious solution is to just not use github but that's probably not super easy for people without the resources to just throw a tarball on a server somewhere and link people to it

Comment by hgs3 15 hours ago

> The default script now is that every side project should either be open-sourced or turned into a SaaS

I think its worse then that. It seems the narrative is everything needs to be enterprise-scale by default. Those who value small languages and tools, experimentation, self-hosting, and the do-it-yourself mindset are the counterculture.

Comment by BeetleB 16 hours ago

> There’s something refreshing about explicitly saying “this editor exists to delight me, and that’s enough”.

(Emacs)

Comment by mmooss 18 hours ago

> created solely for myself; I never had the intention of making it [...] mainstream

This is how many artists have worked. They make something for themself, and one day they show it to someone else ... or they just get the urge to share it more widely, often without the hope that anyone will really be interested. Or they keep it for themself.

I think Tolkien is in that group, for example. But don't get the wrong idea from an extreme outlier: much of the time, others aren't interested, or not many are. Sometimes, nobody is interested until after you've forgotten about it or passed away. Who cares? That's one reason you need to make it for yourself. Also, I think that otherwise it provides much less expression and insight into another person, which is at the core of art. There is a fundamental human need to 'externalize the imagination'.

Comment by alsetmusic 17 hours ago

Several years ago, I wrote an angry email to loved ones about something I’d seen in national news (USA) about my city. A friend replied saying that he thought I should submit it to a local paper. Ended up as an op-ed. Not a major claim to fame, but I was still pleased that someone cared enough about my words to publish.

Comment by lutharvaughn 14 hours ago

If you are actually making it for yourself then it shouldn’t matter. I think sometimes people tell themselves they are doing it for them, but then they start thinking “well what would so and so think”. I know I’ve done it, but once I started actually making things for me, I could feel the difference.

Comment by dansjots 5 hours ago

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Comment by nospice 17 hours ago

> This is how many artists have worked. They make something for themself, and one day they show it to someone else

That model depended on personal wealth or (more often) patronage. Because the supply of wealthy patrons was limited, it meant that you had fewer artists pursuing their visions. Everyone else needed to find menial jobs.

Now, we democratized access to patronage, but it means that to support yourself, you need to deliver what gets you the most clicks, not what your soul craves.

I sort of wish we still had both models, but I think that wealthy patrons have gone out of fashion in favor of spending money on crypto and AI.

Comment by eikenberry 17 hours ago

> That model depended on personal wealth or (more often) patronage.

"They make something for themself, .."

For the vast majority of people this means doing it on the side, in addition to their day-job. I've known a lot of artists in my time and we all have day jobs. You do art for yourself because you love to create, not expecting to make any significant money on it.

Comment by nospice 16 hours ago

Right, which works great if your daytime job is being a professor at Oxford, but maybe less so if your only opportunity is farm labor or other physically exhausting job.

Today, more people have the opportunity to dabble in art than ever before.

Comment by mrec 14 hours ago

Personally I've found it much easier to sustain creative stuff on the side while doing a non-knowledge-based job than a knowledge-based one. Mental exhaustion is much more of a drag than physical. (Though the knowledge-based hours were longer too, which I'm sure was a factor.)

Comment by frutiger 15 hours ago

He started writing his stories long before he was a Professor. It was while he was a young man fighting in the First World War.

Comment by nicbou 11 hours ago

Right, which works great if your daytime job is fighting in the trenches, but maybe less so if your only opportunity is software development or other mentally exhausting job.

Comment by mmooss 15 hours ago

There are plenty of impovrished, struggling artists - it's a cliche - and especially unknown ones creating for themselves.

> Everyone else needed to find menial jobs.

That doesn't mean you can't create art. Anthony Trollope worked for the post office. Einstein, who externalized imagination in somewhat different way and attributed much to art, was a patent clerk. New York and LA are filled with waitstaff-artists. A friend hired a moving company that almost exclusively hired artists as movers (I know - they weren't too skinny?).

Comment by irishcoffee 12 hours ago

I sincerely never understood the “starving artist” thing. Everyone needs to be able to provide for themselves. The whole starving artist thing always came across (to me) as someone who refused to work because… art?

Art, like anything else, lines up somewhere between a hobby and a career. Similar to athletes, somehow the cream just rises to the top.

You never hear about “starving athletes” I guess is what I mean.

Comment by corysama 10 hours ago

There are definitely athletes who spend their entire prime years working in the minor leagues trying to get their big shot in the majors and never quite getting there.

It’s a life of constant travel, crazy hours and very little money.

Comment by mmooss 10 hours ago

Those are big assumptions ...

> Art, like anything else, lines up somewhere between a hobby and a career.

Says who? Are you an artist? Many artists say - and I'm know nothing to doubt them - that they can give up art like you can give up food.

> Similar to athletes, somehow the cream just rises to the top.

No idea where you get that about art. Many complain that a lot of shlock rises to the 'top'. And how do we know about the cream that didn't rise? Many artists aren't discovered until they're old or dead - Van Gogh being the over-repeated example. But even Van Gogh!

It's easier in sports - you can win on the field; there's frequent, objective evidence. But that applies to clearly superior elite, who have access to training. With access Messi would probably be on top regardless, but the number of Messis is a statistical error. People who are professional-level but lower down the pyramid, whose names you don't recognize but who make up the overwhelming majority of athletes, often say it depends mostly on relationships. There are plenty of people like them, and if they get a job depends on their relationships with coaches, agents, etc. You hear about athletes that seem perfectly capable, some even good or very good, but getting no calls.

Comment by fn-mote 10 hours ago

> You never hear about “starving athletes” I guess is what I mean.

Go to the 'hood and see the one returning pro ball player interacting with forty no-money kids trying their hardest to make it.

All of the kids would be better off pursuing a higher-probability-of-success career (including unionized manual labor), but that's not what's happening.

Those are some starving athletes.

Comment by mbg721 12 hours ago

You do sometimes hear of Olympians in the non-big-pro-league sports whose families make enormous financial and lifestyle sacrifices to let them train and compete.

Comment by mmooss 10 hours ago

That was true for all Olympians before they allowed professionals to compete.

Comment by squigz 10 hours ago

> You never hear about “starving athletes” I guess is what I mean.

I mean, just because this isn't a trope doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If you know anything about trying to get into pro sports of literally any type, you'll know that it's a lot of sacrifice for a long time. Most athletes who aren't literally the best in the world aren't paid a huge amount, and have to travel a lot to attend events to make that money.

Comment by mmooss 9 hours ago

In the US, Congress passed a special law restricting the labor rights of minor league baseball players.

Comment by ChrisMarshallNY 16 hours ago

> or passed away

A certain one-eared Dutchman comes to mind...

Comment by mmooss 15 hours ago

Somewhere online I saw photos of where The Dutchman lived while creating some of the paintings - dirty, dreary, lifeless, depresssing places. To see that all around and to imagine and create the mini-worlds in those painting - with their vivid, wild use of color and texture - is wondrous and wonderful.

Comment by ChrisMarshallNY 15 hours ago

I think he sort of lived in his own world. He was def pretty neurodivergent, in some way.

I [sort of] remember a movie, once, that had a kid basically doing a "Don Quixote" on the world, where his vision of everything was kind of wondrous.

Don't remember it well enough to recall its name, though...

Comment by ChrisMarshallNY 12 hours ago

I have to assume that someone has no idea what I was talking about, and thought that I was making some kind of ethnic slur. Sheesh. What do they teach, these days? Do people think Moby Dick is some kind of STD?

For elucidation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_van_Gogh

He died a pauper, but his work is some of the most valuable in history.

Comment by mmooss 10 hours ago

No complaining about downvotes! lol

Yes, sometimes I can't even guess why. Drunk and missed the target? Those little arrows are poor GUI.

Comment by samdoesnothing 17 hours ago

Kafka is another.

Comment by lionkor 51 minutes ago

Snarky reply but most software today makes me feel very strong feelings :'(

Comment by dormento 10 minutes ago

I see node_modules I get angry.

Also, anything electron induces a strong sense of "where did we go wrong?"

Also, mobile-ish interfaces on desktops. Ugh!

Comment by Minor49er 21 hours ago

> When programming becomes repetitive, the odds of you creating something that makes people go “wow” are reduced quite a bit.

Unless you're working on something with a lot of breadth, of course. A great example is yt-dlp which works on a huge number of sites. The wow-factor is high because it feels like it just works everywhere. That's only possible through a huge number of data parsers, many of which are not terribly different from one another

Comment by 21 hours ago

Comment by ozim 19 hours ago

Yeah I make software that makes people feel something - rage - there are 2 types of software one that no one cares about and software that people use and voice their opinions about :)

Comment by elcritch 19 hours ago

I was looking for this comment. For example Microsoft Teams and Office 365 make me feel something, but it’s not joy.

Comment by mghackerlady 19 hours ago

I feel bad for the poor souls that are forced to work on software like that. It surely can't be fun

Comment by vineyardmike 6 hours ago

I never worked at MSFT, but I did work on a few extremely popular consumer-facing products across big tech that had a negative reputation. One product was super hated feature of a bigger and well-loved service (literally "why can't I turn this off") and the other was perceived to be super useful but poor-quality. I think I can understand the experience of those MSFT employees. They know the reputation, and they're sorry, but they need to work, and everyone fights with the product team.

At the former, I started right after school and was baffled no one I worked with ever used our product. I found it super demoralizing to build something so heavily used but unpopular, and eventually I quit out of frustration. I tried to change the product, and improve features, and frequently met with our product and UX people to no avail. We existed, of course, because sometimes popular free products need to serve business goals (thankfully not ads at least).

At the latter, we just had the challenge of building a complicated product, and with millions of users, you'll always get complaints. I had coworkers who would check reddit every morning and share all the complaints people had and really took it to heart. Of course, we could never properly debug or do anything for these random users, and "at scale" a 0.00001% error rate still meant a lot of disappointed people. It was still pretty demoralizing after a while but at least we could say people found us useful, even if it wasn't "fun".

Comment by logicchains 19 hours ago

They might be sadists having the time of their lives. There are few better opportunities in life to get away consequence free with causing pain to a huge amount of people, than working on Microsoft Teams. Not only get away with it consequence free; they're even getting paid for it!

Comment by mcny 18 hours ago

I have not met a single softie who defended the decision to make ctrl shift c the shortcut to start a call in a group chat when ctrl shift v is paste unformatted.

Especially given that the teams client doesn't allow disabling or editing keyboard shortcut.

Microsoft employees may be lazy but unlike Facebook employees (I refuse to call it meta), I don't think they are evil.

Comment by wyre 19 hours ago

H1-B visas? Their alternative surely isn't better.

Comment by 8cvor6j844qw_d6 11 hours ago

DRM software :)

Bonus if its like Sony BMG copy protection rootkit [1].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk...

Comment by Emen15 8 hours ago

Right, I noticed my best tools come from solving a problem that I personally hit daily. Generalizing too early made progess slow, and quality drops.

Comment by superice 4 hours ago

In the best case scenario, professionally writing software is treated like a craft. You produce something useful while applying your skills, with the tools at your disposal. You can write software as an art form, just like woodworking can be both a craft and an art form. A woodworker in an assembly line doing the same thing over and over again to me is not a craftsperson, it is the attitude towards the job that makes it art, craft, or assembly line work.

Too many software projects treat programmers as factory workers, where their primary value is measured in amount of storypoints or Jira tickets finished. Don't get me wrong, you can be a craftsperson and use an issue tracker ofcourse, but if quantity is the only thing management cares about instead of quality, the craft gets lost in the process. Quantity is easy to measure, quality is not.

At the same time treating software like an art is probably not very useful. That code is (typically) not written to be looked at, but to make the computer do something useful.

It's a shame artisinal software sounds so weird, because that precisely describes the level of caring I'd like to see applied to the software I use.

Comment by teacpde 3 hours ago

> At the same time treating software like an art is probably not very useful. That code is (typically) not written to be looked at, but to make the computer do something useful.

FWIW you can argue the same for woodworking, a chair is typically not made to be looked at but for people to sit on. I tired to think what inherently makes writing software treated less than a craft than woodworking, but couldn’t think of any.

Comment by agumonkey 3 hours ago

depends on the kind of software, the visuals are part of the ux and ergonomics. ratio, spacing, how to convey state with just the right amount of visual cues. a chair is not a tool your interact with to create. now there are some software that is like this, you want to start it and forget about it as long as it does its thing while you think about your goal.

Comment by devinprater 18 hours ago

Emacs and Emacspeak make me feel something. A lot of something. This kind of "playground" feeling where I can dive into a manual that's just sitting right there. The the entire Emacs is a manual. C-h m and boom, all keyboard commands for that mode are right, feaking, there. No hidden bullcrap, no patchwork HTML tables to drudge through, nothing. And if something doesn't work with Emacspeak, I can Codex it into working. Maybe. Enough to get what I want done, done.

Comment by godelski 12 hours ago

  > Craft software that makes people feel something
Meta, Google, and all of FAANG already did that. They crafted software that made people feel hate, anger, depression, but sometimes joy. It's nice to get those cute animal posts when doom scrolling. It's a nice break from "you're all going to die", "everyone is dumb except you", and "you're powerless".

Joking aside, I do very much agree with the OP. But I also wanted to note how things can get perverted. Few people are actually evil and most evil people get there slowly. What's that old cliché that everyone forgets? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". The point is to constantly check that you're on the right path and realize that most evil is caused in the pursuit of good because good is difficult to do.

But also I wanted to share a Knuth quote

  | In fact what I would like to see is thousands of computer scientists let loose to do whatever they want. That’s what really advances the field
  - Donald Knuth
I am fully with him on this. It is the same reason Bell Labs had so much success.

  How do you manage a bunch of geniuses?[0]. You don't. 
You let experts explore. They already know the best ways forward. Many will fail, but that's okay. In CS one of the biggest problems we have is that we try to optimize everything, but we're also really bad at math. If you want to optimize search over a large solution space with a highly parallelized processor you create a distribution. It's good to have that mean but you need the tails too and that's what we lose. You tighten the distribution when you need focus on a specific direction but then relax it to go back to exploration. But what we do, is we like railroads. We like to try to carry all the groceries from the car in one trip. We like to go fast, but don't really care where. We love to misquote Knuth about premature optimization to justify our laziness and ignore his quotes about being detail oriented and refining solutions.

I think progress has slowed down. And I think it's because we stopped exploring. We're afraid to do anything radical, and that's a shame

[0] Knuth has another quote about programmers not being geniuses lol

Comment by jesse__ 19 hours ago

> created solely for myself; I never had the intention of making it [...] mainstream

This is a habit I picked up from two people I respect greatly as programmers; Casey Muratori and Jonathan Blow.

Those guys both built their own little lands; Jon went as far as building a new language, a 3D game engine in that language, and has multiple game titles in-flight in the engine.

I have a handful of projects that are similar in spirit. I'm largely the only, and target, user of these projects. It's joyful to work in an environment you control completely. No deadlines, no feature requests, no support tickets, no garbage collector, no language runtime .. just me and the OS having a party.

Comment by 18 hours ago

Comment by mmooss 18 hours ago

> Those guys both built their own little lands

Do you mean they created their own fictional geographic worlds (or parts of worlds)? That's amazing. Many - including Tolkien, I think - have started that way. Sometimes, the world finds out about it. Robert Louis Stevenson started with a map.

Comment by jesse__ 18 hours ago

Hah, I should have been more specific. They created programming environments that are entirely their own. Although Jon has created several games which include fictional geographic worlds.

Comment by mmooss 15 hours ago

Still, it seems like the same thing to me, just in a different medium. Though the public has a much easier time understanding maps than programming environments.

Comment by jesse__ 14 hours ago

Agreed

Comment by socalgal2 16 hours ago

Blow hasn't shipped anything in 10 years. I think Casey as well

Comment by leecommamichael 15 hours ago

What if he ships a game and a programming language by the end of next year? In 2 years? In 5 years?

I think if he ships a game and a programming language in any of those timeframes I will be very impressed. I also think it is likely.

Comment by 14 hours ago

Comment by jesse__ 14 hours ago

I'd consider JAI shipped, it's just not publicly available. There are hundreds (maybe thousands?) of developers in the beta at this point. Next time you build a new programming language, 3D game engine, and ship a game, lemme know how long it takes.

Casey's done both Handmade Hero, and Performance Aware Programming. Some of the best programming educational content available, in my opinion.

Also .. so what?

Comment by PTOB 22 hours ago

In so far as it makes me feel the relief, awe, and pleasure of picking up a good tool, then by all means.

The mouse trail made me feel something else.

Comment by bodhi_mind 19 hours ago

I’m stuck on the opening sentence. Family went to sleep in the morning so rest of the day is free? I must be missing something but that doesn’t make sense.

Did the author chloroform them?

Comment by munificent 18 hours ago

I think English isn't their first language. I believe they mean "are still asleep".

Comment by apsurd 19 hours ago

babies? nap time?

Comment by rpigab 4 hours ago

That's how I feel about my commandline Solitaire game (gitlab.com/rpigab/solitaire-cli, playable on Gitlab pages with an AZERTY or QWERTY keyboard), I'm the end user, I like playing it and making it, but that's about it!

Comment by pvtmert 14 hours ago

This was one of the best & heartfelt blog posts I have read on the HN so far.

I can relate because of 2 things; 1. I also played a lot of legos during my childhood & loved it. 2. I have a similar "preference" on configurations & shell-profile. (ie. overall setup)

At work, I am the only person who has a personal configuration & automation package (ie. dotfiles) at my director's level organization. (Maybe there is another one or two at most)

Not only that, I also have a nearly complete automation to provision a new machine, virtual or otherwise using the same code. (usually maintained by make && make install)

I update things regularly. It has bunch of "utility" scripts. As it being a $FAANG company, once in a while, here and there, people stumble on scripts/solutions/docs (also markdown). There were even occasional CRs (code-reviews / pull-requests) I received.

Comment by nottorp 6 hours ago

> Craft software that makes people feel something

You can easily induce rage by shipping it full of bugs :)

Comment by amelius 21 hours ago

I don't know what the article was about because I got distracted, but the mouse animation looks great!

Comment by socalgal2 16 hours ago

Lots of software is crafted to make me feel rage

Comment by jamesgill 18 hours ago

I agree with the title, but disagree with this:

"When programming becomes repetitive, the odds of you creating something that makes people go “wow” are reduced quite a bit. It isn’t a rule, of course. You need to be inspired to make inspiring software."

The purpose of software for other people is not to make them go 'wow'; it's to help them with their jobs to be done. That's it. The software is always in service to the job the user wants to get done. Can that make them go 'wow'? Sure, but you can't..aim for 'wow'. That's the wrong goal.

As far as 'inspiration' goes, I'm with Stephen King: "Amateurs sit and wait for inspiration, the rest of us just get up and go to work."

For those that might disagree (hey, it's HN), I would ask: how do you know when 'wow' occurs? Here's a clue: 'wow' can only happen when something else occurs first. That 'something else' is described above.

Comment by robin_reala 18 hours ago

That’s overly reductive. You’re making a CRUD app? Absolutely. You’re programming a new effect for a laser setup in a club? Less so.

Comment by bandofthehawk 18 hours ago

Even in the case of a CRUD app, I think it's not bad to aim for a wow. Like "with this new feature, I'll no longer need to do x, y, and z repetitive tasks, great!"

Comment by BeetleB 16 hours ago

I don't know what you are disagreeing with. Your thoughts are somewhat of a non-sequitur.

> The purpose of software for other people is not to make them go 'wow' ... The software is always in service to the job the user wants to get done. Can that make them go 'wow'? Sure, but you can't..aim for 'wow'. That's the wrong goal.

Did he say in his post that he's talking about software for other people? Is the only purpose of writing software to do so for others?

Comment by 9rx 18 hours ago

> The purpose of software for other people is not to make them go 'wow'; it's to help them with their jobs to be done.

Aside from where you've only duplicated something that already exists (in which case why bother?), what kind of software would you be able to create to help me do my job that wouldn't also make me go 'wow'?

Any part of my job that I lack tools to help me with are the parts that seem impossible to have the tools for, so when you defy that understanding, 'wow' is inevitable.

Comment by Yokohiii 17 hours ago

> Aside from where you've only duplicated something that already exists (in which case why bother?)

If we had stopped reiterating on the wheel our cars would drive on wooden logs.

Comment by 9rx 17 hours ago

Of course, a wheel doesn't duplicate a wooden log. The wheel most certainly 'wow'-ed people when it was first introduced.

But if you release a wheel today, same as any other wheel you can already buy, don't expect much fanfare.

Comment by Yokohiii 17 hours ago

My point (and that of the previous poster) is that "wow" isn't required as an initial property to do anything. Pretty sure the dude who made the first wheel just did something that was useful for him in that situation. He didn't think how he could do something to impress his peers. He maybe wasn't even aware he made the first wheel or something innovative.

Also if I'd dive into how F1 wheels are made, I'd expect I learn stuff that is fascinating and far from boring.

Comment by 9rx 17 hours ago

The question asked — paraphrasing to include the context you have added — is how you could create something like a wheel, or a novel adaptation on the wheel like an F1 wheel, without sparking 'wow'? It just doesn't seem impossible. You may not come with the intent to create 'wow', but it is going to happen anyway.

Comment by Yokohiii 16 hours ago

I am confused on your use of "duplicating".

I think straight duplication is quite unlikely. You even say it's inevitable. Which is also confusing. Most code written is probably quite unremarkable, yet useful. Usefulness is a dominating factor, wow has a lot of depends.

Comment by 9rx 16 hours ago

> I think straight duplication is quite unlikely.

Is it? There are many different people selling wheels that are all pretty much indistinguishable from one another. The first one no doubt brought the 'wow'. But when the second person showed up with the same thing, what 'wow' would there be?

Our entire system of trade assumes that duplication occurs as an intrinsic piece, with the only defining difference in that duplication is the effort to make the same thing for cheaper. Otherwise known as competition. Are you suggesting that doesn't happen?

Comment by Yokohiii 15 hours ago

I am stuck with your phrasing. Duplication is for me something like cloning or a perfect copy. Which I think is unusual. You will find a chinese phone that looks like an iPhone but is totally different and magnitudes cheaper. What you talk about is probably more like mimicking. Offering something that people are used to to get into the market. But every competitor will eventually look for things to make a brand or product different. What is inevitable, is to diverge from mimicry. So duplicating is an evolutionary process itself.

Comment by brailsafe 17 hours ago

This is what my nostalgia for native macos editors rests on. I've wanted to buy Coda despite VSCode and other derivatives being more productive, and where would editors now be without BBEdit, Textmate, Espresso/CSS Edit, which all did particular things very well, given the constraints at the time.

Comment by imploded_sub 8 hours ago

Reacting mostly on the title, not the article about software as art/hobby, most software I interact with makes me feel something. Mostly rage, occasionally despair. There has been cases of pleasure or delight, but those are so rare they basically don't count. Edit: also lots of confusion.

Comment by PaulHoule 23 hours ago

Love how the mouse trail effect is using O(1) memory no matter how fast you move the mouse so it won't blow up your browser.

Comment by queuebert 18 hours ago

Genuine question: What else would it do? The mouse trail is a history of coordinates, so that should be linear, right?

Comment by ChrisMarshallNY 19 hours ago

I love that essay.

I tend to do things the same way. I write software that I want to use.

I do tend to go "all the way," though. Making it ship-Quality, releasing it on the App Store, providing supporting Web documentation, etc.

Makes me feel good to do it.

I always used to say "My dream is to work for free."

Livin' the dream...

Comment by trashface 18 hours ago

I've done this, but the product I made is prohibited by the terms of service of the application it works with, and that industry is litigious and authoritarian. So I'm never going to release it, or even talk about it.

Comment by deadbabe 22 hours ago

Dread is a feeling.

Comment by T_Potato 20 hours ago

Yes, that's a good one! Many skilled programmers working in corporations like to go for this one.

Comment by mcphage 21 hours ago

There's definitely software that wants to make people feel dread. Mostly horror games and Atlassian applications.

Comment by nchmy 15 hours ago

JIRA makes people feel something

Comment by css_apologist 18 hours ago

i remember making the switch from atom to vscode felt so cold

i can’t explain what, it wasn’t just the colour scheme

atom was objectively worse on performance and a few other things i forget, but it felt so good to use

Comment by hulitu 1 hour ago

> Craft software that makes people feel something

We have Microsoft, Google, Apple. This is enough pain. We don't need more.

Comment by aeblyve 21 hours ago

I find that the software that evinces a feeling of admiration in me is itself as devoid of feeling as possible, RE the observation that aesthetics are created out of pure functionality.

The more "sentimental" or "egotistical" a piece of software is in itself, the less I like it. Taken to the limit, the title of the article commands us to generate Skinner boxes to maximize user engagement etc.

Comment by jrm4 21 hours ago

I don't think it's too reductive to suggest that what you're liking is also "a feeling," just a different one than you were thinking about?

Comment by aeblyve 20 hours ago

I think that would be too reductive. The objective productive factors of software are what give it actual value. The author could have chosen to write "produce useful software", but did not.

Comment by crumpled 21 hours ago

Looks like they disabled the mouse effect thing everyone is talking about, for the articles. So if you want to see it, go to the homepage of the site.

Comment by dzink 20 hours ago

That was the thought when I designed https://dianazink.com

Comment by beanjuiceII 23 hours ago

rage after moving my mouse on that site...great work !

Comment by Xenoamorphous 20 hours ago

Kinda tangential but in the advent of AI I feel like there won’t be a niche for “handcrafted software”.

When quartz watches came up the makers of mechanical watches struggled. Quartz watches are cheaper, more accurate in many cases and servicing is usually restricted to replacing a battery. However some people appreciate a good mechanical watch (and the status symbol aspect of course) and nowadays the mechanical watch market is flourishing. Something similar happened with artificial fabrics (polyester, acrylic) and cheap made clothes, there’s a market for handmade clothes that use natural fabrics.

Nobody (well, barring a few HN readers) will ever care if the software was written by people or a bot, as long as it works.

Comment by tuveson 20 hours ago

Or maybe it's like someone saying homecooked meals and professional chefs are outdated because McDonalds exists. Homecooked meals are cheaper and healthier, and professional chefs still make better food. I don't think McDonalds is about to disappear, but I'm pretty sure those other categories aren't about to become obsolete any time soon.

Comment by nicbou 20 hours ago

I disagree. It enables more people to build utility software without the pain of writing the boilerplate code for it. This should leave more room for their taste and expertise.

That's how it works for me. I'm currently turning a lot of raw data into a map of Berlin rents. I spend less time figuring out the map API, and more time polishing the interesting parts.

I don't care if a craftsman used hand tools or a CNC to build beautiful furniture. I pay for taste, not toil.

Comment by macintux 20 hours ago

I think you're agreeing, not disagreeing. I also misread the comment originally.

Emphasis mine:

> there won’t be a niche

Comment by cons0le 18 hours ago

Watches are a horrible example. The rich buy them because they're a status symbol. Rich people aren't going to start retaining teams of software experts just for status.

"Mechanical watches" also aren't exploding at all. When people cite this, they're citing the overall watch market growing, because the market for million dollar watches is being driven by a very small group of collectors. Its also not sustainable, and will die down in ~10-20 years when these old guys finish dying. The average not rich person could not give less of a damn about mechanical watches. There's no great comeback on the horizon

Comment by bigstrat2003 16 hours ago

> Nobody (well, barring a few HN readers) will ever care if the software was written by people or a bot, as long as it works.

That is probably true. But all evidence to date is that if the software is written by a bot, it won't work. That is why people will care.

Comment by jesse__ 19 hours ago

This is a bad analogy.

> more accurate in many cases

It's laughable that LLMs can be considered more accurate than human operators at the macro level. Sure, if I ask a search bot the date Notre Dame was built, it'll get it right more often than me, but if I ask it to write even a simple heap memory allocator, it's going to vomit all over itself.

> Nobody [...] will ever care if the software was written by people or a bot, as long as it works

Yeah.. wake me up when LLMs can produce even nominally complex pieces software that are on-par with human quality. For anything outside of basic web apps, we're a long way off.

Comment by mmooss 15 hours ago

> if I ask a search bot the date Notre Dame was built, it'll get it right more often than me

With both of you doing research in your own ways, you'll get it right more often (I hope).

Comment by jesse__ 9 hours ago

I meant without looking it up

Comment by mmooss 9 hours ago

The bot always looks it up, in a way.

Comment by jesse__ 7 hours ago

I mean, so do I, if you think about it like that. I just have a much lower chance of successfully retrieving the correct information.

In the comparison I was making with respect to accuracy was that the bot is much more likely to accurately answer fact-based queries, and much less likely to succeed at any tasks that require actual 'thinking'. Especially when that task is not particularly common in the training set, such as writing a memory allocator. I can write and debug a simple allocator in half an hour, no worries. I'd be surprised if any of the current LLMs could.

Comment by mmooss 6 hours ago

I agree. I was just making a tangential point with a bit of exaggeration; sorry if it seemed to distract from your main point.

If you look up the factual question in a quality source, you'll be more accurate than the bot which looked at many sources. That's all I meant.

Comment by davidivadavid 20 hours ago

So the proof for your claim is two counterexamples?

Comment by ares623 20 hours ago

I believe OP’s intent was that for software, normal users don’t see or understand what’s under the hood so how the software is built doesn’t matter.

Comment by Xenoamorphous 16 hours ago

Exactly. I thought my last paragraph made it clear that software is not like the other couple of things.

Comment by kazinator 7 hours ago

Windows 11 makes people feel something.

No, not like that.

Comment by barrenko 18 hours ago

Craft software that makes you feel something.

Comment by militanz 19 hours ago

Very interesting, I learnt Rust for the same reason: having fun doing something that I need and learning new things in the process.

Good luck for your new project!

Comment by 20 hours ago

Comment by thiagovsdiniz 12 hours ago

I was missing Rapha news since he left social media

Comment by tarkin2 18 hours ago

Making people something for software rather than helping them interact healthily with real people in their surroundings feels irresponsible at this point in time, given all the damage social media, short form videos, and the rest have done to the world at large.

Comment by hellorashid 15 hours ago

case in point: the lil mouse-snakey-animation-thing on your homepage is excessively satisfying and making me feel lots of things

Comment by mulquin 8 hours ago

I found it cute until I realised it didn't disappear when you let it finish shrinking, nor if you click the little blue square. Then I found myself annoyed by it and left the page.

Comment by ghjv 21 hours ago

habitually move my cursor while reading things... so Feels Bad for sure

Comment by vasco 7 hours ago

The guys at palantir really took this to heart

Comment by runtimepanic 17 hours ago

The Zelda example is a good reminder that emotion in software often comes from consistency and responsiveness. Those games feel immersive because the underlying systems behave predictably, inputs map cleanly to actions, and the world reacts without friction. That same principle applies to non-game software too: tight feedback loops and coherent internal rules make tools feel “alive” in a way users notice even if they can’t articulate it.

Comment by nextworddev 10 hours ago

Software… is not where I turn to feel something

Comment by ranger_danger 21 hours ago

Love the mouse cursor, it made me feel happy.

Comment by 17 hours ago

Comment by ZebusJesus 19 hours ago

Boo is an interesting name for an editor what feature were you looking to make that others didn't have? I like your website by the way, the blue square that turns the mouse cursor into a tracer is a neat effect and makes interacting with your content fun!

Comment by smm11 19 hours ago

Circus Ponies Notebook.

That was a look into a world we steered away from.

Comment by 19 hours ago

Comment by flemins 17 hours ago

Does anger count?

Comment by rkomorn 17 hours ago

Not if you want to stand out from the crowd.

Comment by imiric 19 hours ago

> I don’t really feel I need to follow people’s cake recipe for success.

That's great, but then what's the point of this article?

The author is seemingly offering advice about why and how software should be built, but then claims to not follow anyone else's advice. Cool.

Just do whatever makes you happy. If you want to work on proprietary editors and programming languages, go ahead. I would argue that doing that in the open would both improve the projects and make the world a better place, far more than blogging about them does, but this doesn't matter if you're optimizing for personal happiness.

Comment by torginus 21 hours ago

The title sounds like the Chinese curse of software development.

Fun tidbit: Just to make sure I got it right, I quickly googled the phrase. Gemini's elaboration on the topic truly made me feel something. Gemini's answer:

A "Chinese curse" often refers to the phrase "May you live in interesting times," though it's not actually Chinese but a misinterpreted English saying, while actual Chinese curses involve direct insults like "Cào nǐ mā" (Fuck your mother(sic!))

Comment by mmooss 15 hours ago

Gemini conflates two meanings of 'curse'. One is a quasi-ritulistic invocation of some power to change the object's fate. The other is intentionally rude, transgressive words used to attack or humiliate.

Comment by swader999 20 hours ago

I think with tools like Claude code you can more easily tackle niche areas that would benefit from custom crafted features and then using the app would feel like it was purpose built for the specific task at hand. Sure the code might not look hand crafted, but if it works and solves problems in the world...