Firewood Banks Aren't Inspiring. They're a Sign of Collapse

Posted by toomuchtodo 18 hours ago

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Comments

Comment by retrac 17 hours ago

The article sort of has a point; in a healthy economy this kind of labour would be done with capital equipment. A sawmill is much more efficient than a bunch of individuals chopping wood with axes. (Safer too, probably, when talking about injuries per unit.) The inability for this work to be done efficiently with capital reflects a flaw in the economic order. (The classic: poor people don't have the stuff to do things efficiently, and so remain poor.)

But this article has a certain feeling of contempt for hicks doing something as backwards as burning wood for warmth. Maybe it sticks out to me because I'm in Canada, where a significant % of all households (of all social classes) rely on wood. Because wood happens to be the cheapest source of heat. The fact that we burn wood is not a sign of industrial decay or primitiveness. It's a sign of there being a lot of trees and logging around these parts.

But at the same time, yes, it is associated with poverty. Wood smoke is unhealthy. And wood heat one of the highest rates of injury or fire in terms of home heating. Some people resort to it out of desperation, particularly junk wood and garbage that shouldn't even be burned. But not necessarily so. Back to the point of the article: is there quantified evidence that use of wood for heat is increasing in America among the poor? Or is this based on the author's impressions?

Comment by chriscjcj 17 hours ago

> Back to the point of the article: is there quantified evidence that use of wood for heat is increasing in America among the poor? Or is this based on the author's impressions?

Indeed. I wish that were the point of the article. However, in my opinion, this article is unfortunately much more of an emotional/political rant than a conveyor of useful information.

Comment by mindslight 15 hours ago

> A sawmill is much more efficient than a bunch of individuals chopping wood with axes.

I generally agree with your comment (see my other comment on this article), but I think a big problem with this article is that it doesn't do the work of substantiating things like whether the volunteers in question are actually chopping wood with axes. I would guess that big pile in the picture was made by a volunteer who already owns a firewood business with a firewood processor.

Comment by exabrial 17 hours ago

> Rural communities are banding together to chop firewood so that people in need can heat their homes. This shouldn’t be necessary.

Headlines like this are so commonplace these days I instinctively avoid them. They're telling you what your opinion should be, not educating you so you can make an informed decision.

Comment by orange_joe 17 hours ago

The entire piece keeps telling you to ignore the people in question, their statements and their preferences. It wants to push this doomer narrative of left behind people, while ignoring that communities are putting these banks together & the government is actively supporting them.

Comment by NoMoreNicksLeft 16 hours ago

I think mischaracterizing this as a sign of collapse (a word that I'd only use for the result being a permanent state of affairs), it does point towards a sort of extreme economic distress that's difficult to overstate.

Comment by toomuchtodo 17 hours ago

Title wasn't editorialized in keeping with forum guidelines, but I found the topic interesting (TIL wood banks), so I leave it to mods to update the title to something they find more appropriate (if necessary). "There are wood banks? Interesting! How do they work? Why do we need them?" and so on.

Comment by jcater 17 hours ago

To be fair, I don’t think OP was directing that statement to you, the submitter. Rather, he was commenting on the article itself.

Comment by toomuchtodo 17 hours ago

Totally, and that's fair; I hope the discussion can be more about the topic and not the quality of the article itself. Lots of other links in this thread on the topic (rural wood banks) that are relevant, and I think it's an interesting story about community, rural self reliance, governance system failures, etc. "Think in systems."

It's easy to say "this article is trash and move on." Lets do the hard way and talk about the topic instead of the piece specifically. Please try to be curious.

HN Search: "by:dang intellectual curiosity" - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Comment by zdragnar 17 hours ago

This article has so many things wrong with it, it is hard to know where to start.

The core assumption, I suppose, is that this is a sign of collapse because the systems and institutions worked before.

Unfortunately for the author, it's evident that they never did. The gaps were merely papered over by cheap propane and heating oil.

Comment by toomuchtodo 18 hours ago

https://archive.today/Yz45e

Related:

Wood banks in Maine are increasing and so is the need for heat - https://www.bangordailynews.com/2025/11/21/hancock/increased... - November 21st, 2025

Residential Heating Fuel Sources in Maine - https://www.maine.gov/energy/sites/maine.gov.energy/files/in... - October 2024

Alliance for Green Heat: Funding for Firewood Banks - https://www.firewoodbanks.org/

Maine Wood Banks Network - https://woodbanks.org/explore-our-network

National Wood Bank Project - https://digitalcommons.library.umaine.edu/woodbanks/

Comment by gruez 17 hours ago

This is a terrible article.

I dug into the figures behind some of the claims made in the article and they seem a bit hyperbolic, for instance:

>You don’t start a wood bank in a country with functioning institutions. You start one when heating assistance programs can’t keep up, when the grid flickers every time the wind shifts, when propane and heating oil costs swing so hard that families can’t budget more than a week out.

The linked articles cite a 8.4-16.4% price increase for natural gas, and a decrease of 4% and 5% for heating oil and propane respectively. While I understand some people might be living paycheck to paycheck, characterizing this as "costs swing so hard that families can’t budget more than a week out" is a stretch. At the very least the author could not mention "heating oil" when it decreased in price?

Other parts of the article are equally misleading. For instance

>Rural families don’t get to pretend. They know exactly what it means when the power goes out for the third time in a month and the utility company shrugs because the profit isn’t there to fix it.

That gives you the impression that electricity companies are refusing to fix broken electricity grids, leaving people to freeze, but the first link is actually a story about people being disconnected after they don't pay their bills, and the second is about lack of maintenance for California's grid. Both are vaguely related to the original claim, but are cited in a highly misleading way. While it's regrettable that customers are disconnected for bill non-repayment, you obviously can't also have an utility operate where there's no consequences for non-payment. And while PG&E should be raked over the coals for their lack of maintenance, it's a stretch to link it to people in the north east freezing.

Comment by dmoy 17 hours ago

I guess this is one of the other articles it is referencing: https://www.mainepublic.org/2025-11-20/wood-banks-in-maine-a...

Communal chopping of firewood is something I remember from like.... two decades ago?

Maybe it's less of a "collapse" thing, and more of a "we haven't invested enough time & resources to get better cheap distributed heating solutions that don't create so much pollution"?

Human volunteer power to cut down some local trees is a lot cheaper than, e.g., buying a geothermal installation, with solar and battery backup (battery backup would need to last for days in rural Maine if a winter storm breaks the solar).

Comment by TYPE_FASTER 15 hours ago

The cost of health insurance is going up by a factor of 8x per month for some people next year. Everything costs more.

People in rural communities are aging more rapidly than in more densely populated areas. Wood heat is more common in rural areas, and is more labor intensive if you're splitting it yourself.

Comment by orange_joe 17 hours ago

this seems overly polemic. My parents live on a small farm and heat their home with firewood. My dad likes splitting wood, and it’s marginally cheaper since they own a plot of woodland. Although, they have a brand new heat pump they prefer to use their wood burning stove. It’s fairly common but in my experience it’s primarily a lifestyle choice not economic . People who chose to live out their also like the resiliency given their libertarian/prepper tendencies. it’s annoying because this entire piece is predicated on ignoring everything locals actually say.

Comment by mindslight 17 hours ago

I'm burning wood for primary heat, and I agree with the thrust of the article - despite its poor job of making the case with data or even anecdotes.

There is so much work fundamentally involved in handling firewood. It's much different to be burning wood when you have the resources to make handling it easier, or when you're doing it as a mere option for supplementary heat. For example, as I split (log splitter) or it gets delivered (from someone who owns a firewood processor), I stack it in IBC totes to sit around and season. I then move those with a tractor so they're right next to an outdoor wood boiler. So I basically touch each piece twice, with optionality for whether I am going to make a project of cutting down trees or just pay for it. Or I've got a few friends that get it all delivered, stack their own big wood piles, then move it to a smaller thing to carry it indoors, but only to supplement central heat which they keep lower.

Whereas when you're doing it out of necessity, and trying to conserve even then, there is just so much more human effort that gets used. It does make sense to view it in terms of societal collapse, or at the very least poverty. This fall, I saw a bunch of houses in denser areas - grapple loads delivered to tiny front yards, and they're out there making sense of it with just a chainsaw and hand tools. I presume they were going to burn it this winter, too. That doesn't seem like a good use of anyone's time, effort, or risk appetite.

A good litmus test: what kind of vehicles are people picking the wood from wood banks with? If there are a bunch of people loading their car trunks and whatnot every few days, that's not a good scene. If the same volunteers are delivering truckbeds (and stacking them) to needy older people who had burnt wood their entire life but are having trouble managing it now, that's less dire.

Comment by lisdexan 8 hours ago

I find it very telling that most comments are supposedly seeing contempt for rural people in this piece, or that it classifies wood burning as primitive. I live in a country where wood still is the most common fuel, even in the urban areas sans the capital city. People do it because is cheaper, and that fact is the thrust of the piece, people normally buy it.

A food bank is a noble thing, but more people relying in it is obviously a sign of socio-economic decay. Food and heating in winter are literally the most basic humans needs, if you need free firewood you aren't doing well. It's not "cute" that grandma's pension doesn't cover food and a delivery of wood from a sawmill. People are nay-saying and flagging because realizing that your country is becoming poorer sucks ass, so "coastal elite" pearl clutching is easier.

Comment by tengbretson 17 hours ago

> You don’t start a wood bank in a country with functioning institutions.

A wood bank is a functioning institution, you clown.

Comment by retr0rocket 17 hours ago

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Comment by TrnsltLife 12 hours ago

This writer has lost the plot. Humans have been storing up for winter for millennia. The author wants us to live in a magic fairy tale where heat in the winter "just happens", and in fact, fairy tale style, a friendly woodcutter shows up to cut firewood for you in this article, but somehow that's a sign of societal collapse. The author needs to get out and not touch grass, but touch a tree, and maybe chop it down.

Comment by quickthrowman 14 hours ago

Living in a rural area is expensive, you need to maintain your own water supply, sewage system, and either have fuel delivered or chop wood or pay out the nose for electric heating.

It’s much easier to be poor in a city than in a rural area, when you move into an apartment you just start paying the various utilities and you get water and natural gas and your sewage is connected to a shared system. There’s no water pumps to replace or fuel deliveries.

Comment by Spivak 17 hours ago

Lordy this comment section is tiring:

* The number of wood banks are increasing in Maine because of rising cost of living meaning residents can't afford the $300/cord anymore and because of cuts to the LIHEAP program.

* Wood banks function identically to food banks except it's for heat. A rise in the number of food banks as well as a rise in demand from food banks is a natural signal of economic conditions on the ground.

* Just like food banks, these wood banks are a source of community for the participants. Volunteering at a food bank stocking pantries and putting together bags with your friends is actually kind of fun which is where the heartwarming angle comes from.

* If you believe that it shouldn't be the community's job to come together to provide their neighbors food and heat and that's what government is supposed to be for then this reasonably looks like a failing.

* This government failing combined with the economic conditions that necessitate additional assistance signaling a downward spiral is broadly the author's thesis.

* Some general additional context: heating your home with wood is actually pretty great. It's often cheaper than other sources of heat, it's a form of renewable energy (and actually qualified for the Biden tax credit because of it) and there are high efficiency stoves that get the wood burning "clean" as well as tip the economics even more in favor of wood.

Comment by joenot443 17 hours ago

> No paperwork. No means tests. No government forms. Just a pile of hardwood that shows up because someone else’s house would be cold without it.

Smells like LLM.

Comment by gruez 17 hours ago

Not to mention

>You don’t start a [...]. You start one when [...]

and the title itself.

Comment by unethical_ban 17 hours ago

I concur with several other comments that criticize the strained prose and probable AI assistance in the article.

The point being pushed is valid - in this age, we as a society and in this country should have access to stable energy sources for heating, and somewhat stable prices to do so. If as this article implies, millions potentially cannot, and are needing to go to donation stations to be able to keep their home warm, then our governments are not meeting their obligations.

Comment by jameskilton 17 hours ago

But, but this is what they vote for. "Government is bad, we can do it ourselves!"

Comment by rienbdj 17 hours ago

Government fails -> “government can’t do anything” -> vote for smaller government -> government fails -> “government can’t…

Comment by selectodude 17 hours ago

[flagged]

Comment by rienbdj 17 hours ago

> No paperwork. No means tests. No government forms. Just a pile of hardwood that shows up because someone else’s house would be cold without it.

Hate AI writing style

Comment by r0ckarong 17 hours ago

Some billionaire is eating food flown around the world this very moment.

Comment by nosianu 17 hours ago

He is not the only one, this is normal now and not a sign of super-rich depravity.

Here in my Bavarian city I can get mangos explicitly labeled "flight mangos" ("Flugmangos" - German supermarket), for example. They look so much better than the regular ones, but at almost 10 Euros per piece I have not tried one yet since I still have dried mango pieces in the fridge.

Relevant: https://www.lufthansa-cargo.com/en/-/flying-fresh-12

Comment by kennyadam 13 hours ago

I don't think they mean food imported from another country. A billionaire sending an assistant on private jet to fetch a jar of his favourite marmalade only sold in a store 8000 miles away because they had a craving for it, the absurd resources required to satisfy it and no concern for how wasteful it is.

Comment by gruez 17 hours ago

"food flown around the world " is very much affordable by the middle class. Tropical fruits, for instance is at most several times more expensive than domestic fruits. They're not going to eat mangoes or lychee on a daily basis, but they're not exactly caviar either.