Hunting for North Korean Fiber Optic Cables
Posted by Bezod 1 day ago
Comments
Comment by liversage 1 day ago
The last one is connected to the internet and this is why you can see (or at least before the pandemic could see) Instagram posts from North Korea.
I have no idea if this information is still or ever was completely true though.
There's a somewhat dated but very interesting AMA on Reddit by an American teaching computer science in Pyongyang:
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ucl11/iama_american_...
Reading about the internet knowledge possessed by North Korean students, I'm always surprised how they supposedly also manage to be some of the most cunning and evil actors when it comes to hacking.
Comment by mmsc 1 day ago
I do not think that exists. I imagine the diplomats and other foreigners living there will have this, though.
When I was there two times (in Pyongyang, and in villages in the north east & Rason) any access to the outside world was prohibited via a network other than telephone (I could make outgoing phone calls via the hotel). Even traveling very close to the border (which they use jammers to block outside connections), my guides were annoyed when they saw I was trying to connect to the Chinese network from my phone.
The only place I saw any access "to the outside world" was in Rason (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rason_Special_Economic_Zone), where one of the casinos had a computer which could be used to access the internet (through the Chinese GFW, of course).
Comment by foota 1 day ago
I sort of suspect this is just the result of a nation state that is willing to be a pariah. That is, I think nearly any large state could do it if they didn't mind burning bridges.
Comment by ipdashc 1 day ago
Does anyone remember LAPSUS$ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsus$ from a while back? It was reported for a while that it was largely made up of teenagers, and it seems two did get caught. I recall their whole MO being brazen social engineering/using stolen credentials in a way that got them caught pretty quickly, but also got results fast.
Comment by louthy 1 day ago
Comment by wongarsu 20 hours ago
Crime being illegal doesn't prevent crime, but it adds an enormous amount of friction. In the West if you are decent at hacking, low-level APIs or reverse engineering you could turn to cyber crime. But if you instead get a regular job in cyber security or software engineering you still get a good salary, and don't have to worry about your online friends being police informants, can tell your potential significant other what you do to earn a living, get money wired directly to your bank account instead of having to go through costly intermediaries with significant risks, don't have trouble with the tax authority, etc.
If you reduce the legal opportunities and remove the downsides of the illegal ones the calculation completely changes, and with it the talent pool
Comment by Atlas667 1 day ago
The world doesnt make sense if you ignore history.
They probably hack for the same reason the west does it: attack/defense and money.
Comment by joshfraser 1 day ago
Comment by seized 1 day ago
Comment by AngryData 1 day ago
If I told you today that I will pay you a million dollars to go fuck around with some North Korean servers, and doing it completely anonymously with the full protection and sanction of your government, would you say no?
I think you may have some unrealistic views on how North Korea operates internally. 99% of their population lives completely normal lives and has zero extra interactions with the government beyond basic grunt military service which is common across much of the world, and paperwork for licensing, permits, and taxes. We only see the worst possible views of North Korea from the outside, slathered with thick layers of additional propaganda on top of it.
Comment by kakacik 19 hours ago
If you consider numerous reports of people that managed to barely escape and report this consistently in the west as pure propaganda, thats... your paranoid mindset. Sometimes people and regimes are simply evil, 21st century is in no way immune to that.
Comment by temp8830 1 hour ago
Comment by supernetworks 19 hours ago
Comment by hulitu 1 day ago
If you only met the world on American TV, yes.
Comment by engineer_22 1 day ago
Comment by cmwelsh 1 day ago
Comment by piokoch 21 hours ago
This sentiment is probably overblown. The fact that they are effectively robbing people to earn some money for their pathetic regime means only that they are on the level of nowadays internet scammers. They are good at that too.
Spending enough money (and they spend a lot - 26 million people work only for this) one can train people to do this or hire people to do this for them.
Comment by NedF 1 day ago
Comment by tehjoker 1 day ago
Comment by bigfishrunning 1 day ago
If you're worried about "absolute control over digital systems", notice how many standards get published describing how those digital systems work -- you're welcome to reimplement them if you'd like more control.
Comment by lawlessone 1 day ago
Comment by bigfishrunning 1 day ago
Comment by tehjoker 1 day ago
Comment by nephihaha 1 day ago
Comment by JumpCrisscross 1 day ago
/s? This is literally a Monty Python sketch.
Comment by nephihaha 1 day ago
The Romans were true imperialists. They considered their opponents to be barbarians, and claimed they lived in wastelands. The truth is more complex. In many places — yes, including Judaea — they inherited infrastructure and buildings. Judaea was previously occupied by the Greeks and a number of other civilisations had left behind remains. The idea that it was terra nullis or a tabula rasa is nonsense. Even Gaul which was considered to be a frontier already had a road system (some of which has been only rediscovered in recent times), and what is now Marseilles was a Greek city going way back before the Roman conquest.
Romanes eunt domum indeed.
Comment by JumpCrisscross 1 day ago
The Romans also aggressively appropriated from and integrated the people they conquered, extending the concept of citizenship and thus what it meant to be Roman in the process.
Nobody is saying the Romans came across terra nullis. But describing their engineering and culture as "merely improving roads" is silly.
Comment by nephihaha 23 hours ago
When I was growing up we were taught the Romans' own imperial myth that they had built upon nothing. The Monty Python film even promotes that as a joke. There are cities in the Holy Land like Jericho which were inhabited before Rome was even founded.
p.s. Do I get downvotes for pointing out archaeological and historical fact here? When I said "merely improved roads", I was talking about their road network not their entire civilisation.
Comment by JumpCrisscross 13 hours ago
They learned and appropriated. People and cultures that think anything foreign is evil don’t tend to advance.
The Romans weren’t some progressive legend. But they integrated and distributed knowledge and technology expertly, and were genuine innovators in their chief technology, that of scaled administration.
> When I was growing up we were taught the Romans' own imperial myth that they had built upon nothing
Why do you think this says anything about the Romans versus the context in which you were educated? Is there a single historical source from Republican, Imperial or Eastern Rome you can point to that claims Rome was built on nothing (other than the founding of Rome)?
They identified as conquerors. You don’t get a triumph for shooing some goats off a hill.
Comment by lawlessone 11 hours ago
Comment by lawlessone 1 day ago
why did they invest in those roads? They weren't a charity.
Comment by AngryData 1 day ago
Comment by lawlessone 13 hours ago
Comment by nephihaha 1 day ago
Comment by lawlessone 1 day ago
Comment by tehjoker 1 day ago
you may want to read this book about the military history of the internet originating in counter insurgency strategy in vietnam.
https://www.amazon.com/Surveillance-Valley-Military-History-...
another way to look at american internet penetration is as “radio free asia dot com”
Comment by edm0nd 1 day ago
North Korea is responsible for adding the hot beverage, umbrella with raindrops, and lightning bolt emojis
Comment by superducktoes 1 day ago
Comment by monerozcash 1 day ago
A bit over a decade ago I used to spend a lot of time hacking North Korean web infrastructure, I mostly found that they tended to have firewalling around almost all boxes exposed to the global internet and usually had pretty impressive reaction times if you tried to access the country intranet through a compromised web server.
I've always wondered how successful NSA and the likes have been at infiltrating DPRK networks, as it would inherently be fairly easy to detect any sketchy traffic from the outside. I wonder if the recent NYT story essentially confirms that difficulty.
Regarding the NSA and DPRK, there's this document from 2007 least https://www.eff.org/files/2015/02/03/20150117-spiegel-fifth_...
I guess I have a question after all: I'm not exactly clear on how NK treats end-user devices. Do you know if the endpoints used by NK based remote workers have internet and intranet access at the same time? If they do, such an endpoint could offer an easy and stealthy channel to access the intranet.
Comment by superducktoes 1 day ago
Comment by superducktoes 1 day ago
https://github.com/b30wulf/Malware-collection/blob/4f5906c93...
There was also the hacking team leak from years ago and they were selling exploits for north korea's red star OS: https://nkinternet.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/...
I assume they've been on their networks in the past but i think North Korea has also done a lot over the years to secure their side. it used to be a lot easier when they left everything as an open directory and didn't realize what they were doing.
Comment by monerozcash 1 day ago
South Korean NIS was in fact a hacking team client, so it would make sense. Especially considering how terrible Red Star OS was at the time, a HT engineer could probably have whipped those up in a couple of days.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180302155452/http://english.yo...
>I assume they've been on their networks in the past but i think North Korea has also done a lot over the years to secure their side. it used to be a lot easier when they left everything as an open directory and didn't realize what they were doing.
I'm sure they've had some success, but I'd expect it to be a really difficult environment to operate in. Even for the NSA. I suppose eventually there'll be a better leak and we'll get to find out just how well it's been going.
Comment by anonu 1 day ago
Interesting document - confirming "everyone spies on everyone". Is this from some sort of corporate NSA chat room?
Comment by monerozcash 1 day ago
Some excerpts from a seemingly unreleased Snowden leak (from Dark mirror: Edward Snowden and the American Surveillance State):
> “Why is a scoop of potatoes larger than a scoop of eggs in the cafeteria?” a contributor named Michael wondered one day. Paul jumped in to play the troll. “Let me be the first to down-vote you,” Paul wrote, naming several pedantic reasons. A side debate erupted: should Michael’s post be down-voted, flagged, or removed? Clyde returned to the topic at hand with a facetious theory that scoop volume is proportional to the relative size of potatoes and eggs themselves. In that case, Scott replied, what would happen if “we served eggs that were bigger than potatoes, like of an Ostrich?” Someone proposed a uniform system, “One Spoon to scoop them all,” an homage to Lord of the Rings. Punsters demanded the “inside scoop” and lamented the waste of time on “small potatoes.”
Gotta say, it's pretty disappointing that Gellman, Greenwald, Poltras et. al. have been so stingy with these documents. It's definitely starting to have been long enough for them to just dump everything.
Comment by metadat 1 day ago
It's interesting to discover the reality that packet routing ends up following political affiliations. I didn't know North Korea only has 1,024 IPv4 addresses. Do you know why so few IPs? How did they get them?
Comment by toast0 1 day ago
Certainly political affiliations have some influence, but also China and Russia have land borders with North Korea and are not at war. It's very common to run fiber optic on/under railroads and vehicle roads, so there you go. It's probably pretty hard to attract an international cable consortium to land in North Korea given everything, but terrestrial cabling is easier to start with anyway.
> I didn't know North Korea only has 1,024 IPv4 addresses. Do you know why so few IPs? How did they get them?
They would have asked APNIC, the Regional Internet address Registry for their region (Asia-Pacific). I can't find an assignment date, but 175/8 was assigned to APNIC in 2009. 2009 lines up with wikipedia reporting of the startup of the current ISP joint venture.
Comment by monerozcash 1 day ago
As far as I know, end-user traffic from within North Korea usually does not originate from those few IP addresses. Or at least not visibly so, they might be connecting to a proxy from a DPRK IP address.
Comment by lukan 1 day ago
IP4 is quite limited as far as I know and not given out freely since a long time, or what do you mean here?
Comment by jauer 1 day ago
E.g. I was able to get a /24 in the ARIN region in 2021 and could justify 2 more for a _logical_ network topology similar to what NK presents to the world.
APNIC similarly has a pool available for IPv4 allocations: https://www.apnic.net/manage-ip/ipv4-exhaustion/#the-situati...
Comment by eqvinox 20 hours ago
Comment by protocolture 21 hours ago
Comment by toast0 1 day ago
[1] as of Nov 2025, approximately 3 million or a little more than 12,000 /24s https://www.apnic.net/manage-ip/ipv4-exhaustion/#how-to-tras...
Comment by monerozcash 1 day ago
Comment by eqvinox 20 hours ago
What's your source for that number? Is it GBit or GByte? Are they building out OTU1?
Comment by apercu 1 day ago
Comment by NedF 1 day ago
Comment by mikkupikku 1 day ago
Edit: Good article though, I enjoyed it a lot.
Comment by adamcharnock 1 day ago
Comment by Lukas_Skywalker 1 day ago
Comment by eqvinox 19 hours ago
Comment by lesuorac 1 day ago
Like I have fiber to the house and you really need to pinch it and whatnot to cause an internet outage.
Comment by oarsinsync 18 hours ago
A large bend radius means it has to be a big bend.
A 7.5mm bend radius is really small. You can bend that stuff pretty tight before you create a problem.
Comment by st_goliath 1 day ago
Comment by mikeyouse 1 day ago
https://www.seeclearfield.com/fiber-optic-wall-box/metal-wal...
Comment by whatsupdog 17 hours ago
Comment by codedokode 1 day ago
As for utility boxes along the track, it could be something railway-related, for example, some railway control or monitoring equipment.
Comment by actionfromafar 1 day ago
Comment by bigiain 1 day ago
Comment by eqvinox 19 hours ago
Comment by bigiain 10 hours ago
What's the most important piece of camping gear you can take with you?
A meter or so of fiber optical cable. So that if you get lost of injured you can bury it and wait for the backhoe to show up and dig through it, then get a ride back to civilisation with the operator.
Comment by eqvinox 19 hours ago
Also, installing general telco fibre next to railway lines is standard practice. Makes all the bureaucracy so much easier if you can just use the existing railway right-of-way. Not that the DPRK would care much about right-of-way ;D
Comment by AngryData 1 day ago
Comment by samus 1 day ago
Comment by dboreham 1 day ago
Comment by petcat 1 day ago
Comment by joecool1029 1 day ago
Comment by jojobas 1 day ago
Sure it was a correct thing for Kims to do, millions of Koreans be damned.
Comment by AngryData 1 day ago
Comment by kakacik 19 hours ago
You seem to have... very strong while also contrarian opinions in this thread to be polite, leaning heavily into apologist position for North Korean government
Comment by AngryData 14 hours ago
Comment by justsomejew 1 day ago
Comment by nephihaha 1 day ago
Comment by TheBicPen 1 day ago
Comment by AngryData 1 day ago
I can't even say that they made the wrong decision either, North Korea still exists as an independent nation which is amazing in itself.
Comment by keybored 16 hours ago
America bombed North Korea back to the stone age. Now we in the West wonder why it’s so F’d up by its very own volition.
[1]: This is not to say that North Korean propaganda is not real.
Comment by VWWHFSfQ 1 day ago
Comment by timschmidt 1 day ago
Comment by petcat 1 day ago
Comment by nl 1 day ago
The US nearly lost the Korean war.
The US army was nearly overrun at least once.
The US airforce never achieved air superiority, and Soviet aircraft were better in most ways.
The only undisputed advantage the US had was nukes, which is why MacArthur wanted to use them tactically (!)
Comment by abraae 1 day ago
The only path that America had to win in Vietnam was to destroy it, including the population they were allegedly there to protect. Hence they lost.
Comment by timschmidt 1 day ago
Comment by petcat 1 day ago
Comment by yongjik 1 day ago
Some Hacker News threads are on their own level.
Comment by petcat 1 day ago
USA dropping nukes probably would have been the better outcome for humanity.
Comment by nl 23 hours ago
Comment by lkbm 16 hours ago
I'm far from convinced that using nukes in the Korean War would've been a good move, but equating it with "kill[ing] them all" is completely dishonest. What's your goal in this debate, and is it served by dishonest rhetoric?
Comment by nl 5 hours ago
> That USA didn't nuke China in 1950 or 1951. Would have solved a lot of problems for generations of people.
> USA dropping nukes probably would have been the better outcome for humanity.
Both of which I read as an expansive campaign of "nuking China"
Comment by gpm 1 day ago
Comment by jojobas 1 day ago
Comment by AngryData 23 hours ago
Comment by nl 23 hours ago
Because it was a once (twice!) off the impact and significance of it is amplified.
Comment by TheBicPen 1 day ago
Comment by noobr 19 hours ago
Comment by antonymoose 1 day ago
Comment by temp8830 1 hour ago
Comment by denkmoon 1 day ago
Comment by TheBicPen 1 day ago
Comment by etc-hosts 1 day ago
Comment by AngryData 1 day ago
Comment by jojobas 1 day ago
If you exclude the outliers like Campuchia and Nazi Germany, even the most benign commies are always way more deadly than the most ferocious fascists.
Comment by AngryData 1 day ago
Unification was supported by both sides among the people, most South Koreans supported communism and 70% of them supported unification with the North. South Koreans didn't even support their own government, they were dealing with internal insurrection from their own people. The North was an industrialized nation and the South was a poor farming country and their unification would of been hugely beneficial to both. The war would have been over in another 2 weeks without intervention and a minimal amount of casualties, and it had only been 3 months from the start of the invasion. The only people not in support of it at the time was the political leaders of SK at the time because it meant they personally as individuals would lose power and wealth, and the US who was on a crusade to crush and kill anybody who dared support communism. Korea never should have been split in the first place, but the US and USSR had to be little bitches and force their will upon these people.
Killing 5 million people, most of which were innocent civilians, in the name of "fighting communism" is evil, not the idea of a unified nation of people supported by those same people.
Comment by nl 23 hours ago
Comment by jojobas 22 hours ago
Soviet occupation. Korea was supposed to be unified and elect a government back in 1950, Soviets made sure it didn't happen because they had no chance of winning.
That and, you know, the whole invasion thing.
Comment by AngryData 10 hours ago
Pretty sure the soviets were perfectly fine with the North taking the South considering the South was US aligned which gave the US a foothold right on their doorstep. And again, the vast majority of Korean people on both sides supported Korean unification. The South Korean leadership, which was basically appointed by the US for their pro-US and anti-communism stance, was so unpopular among South Koreans that there was civilian insurrectionists trying to topple it. The South Korean military upon invasion couldn't even keep its own troops from deserting in significant numbers, and they even blew up a bridge full of refuges to try and stop the advance which it failed to do.
Yes the North invaded which is generally bad, but they did do it with popular sentiment among the people, and they weren't attacking and killing civilians along the way.
And regardless of all that, none of that justifies the US response of bombing and killing millions of civilians and leveling entire cities. The Korean War is considered the most deadly war in Asia ever, and had far higher percentage of civilian casualties than WWII and Vietnam.
Comment by jojobas 9 hours ago
I guess if I have to explain it I might as well not bother.
Comment by dragonwriter 9 hours ago
The entire analysis of capitalism which articulated the class system with which it replaced that of the pre-existing aristocracy and revealed the elimination of class to actually just be a switch in its structure and elevation of a new ruling class was by Communists.
Comment by jojobas 7 hours ago
Comment by etc-hosts 1 day ago
NK is paranoid for very valid reasons.
Comment by hulitu 1 day ago
Why in that country ? US controls much of western opinion and made a lot of atrocities, yet, nobody cares (see the ongoing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_United_States_military_st... )
Comment by s5300 1 day ago