Bad Dye Job
Posted by mpweiher 1 day ago
Comments
Comment by skylurk 1 day ago
It was a tense 25 minutes of interchanges without nav before traffic was clear enough to deny the terms, and I purged the app and cancelled the subscription afterward.
Comment by nake89 1 day ago
Very bad first impression! I was shocked that they think some notification is more important than being able to know where you are driving. Notifications should not be on by default!
Comment by pstuart 1 day ago
Comment by dfxm12 1 day ago
Comment by skylurk 1 day ago
For the record, I actually like Maps for driving. I find the level of detail just right for how I use it.
My main complaint happens when you are not driving: if you let it have access to your location, Maps is constantly resetting your pan/zoom if the app becomes inactive. So on MacOS I block location, but a phone has to have your location for nav of course.
Comment by altairprime 1 day ago
Comment by bubbi 21 hours ago
Comment by nunez 1 day ago
Jobs might have been an asshole, but his enthusiasm for the details is incontestable. He couldn't wait to show people the Save window, in its many forms. That he cared about the small details in everything is easy to see.
Contrast that with Alan Dye's inspiration reel for Liquid Glass. He's clearly reading from a script, which is quite a downgrade but understandable given the production value of keynotes these days. However, the real problem is that this intro is all about how it looks, not how it functions.
Microsoft tried this move with Vista (and their Aero design, which mostly failed), then again with Metro (which also by and large failed). Meanwhile, the key concepts of Aqua remain timelessly in macOS 25 years later. Function over form always!
Comment by gyomu 1 day ago
His statement “prior to today never heard much about [Steve Lemay]” leads me to think he doesn’t have intimate access to anyone deeply familiar with design decisions, because anyone who’s spent a little bit of time behind closed doors in that space absolutely knows who Lemay is.
But then he quotes sources who are supposedly “in a position to know the choices”, which would imply they are quite embedded in the design org…
Maybe it’s all voluntary misdirection on his behalf.
Comment by avalys 1 day ago
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Comment by troupo 1 day ago
It's also possible he has very few sources left: he's an outsider to the company, and it's hard to maintain sources since people leave, move to different positions etc.
Comment by philistine 1 day ago
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Comment by troupo 13 hours ago
He really is unique in how consistently wrong and clueless he keeps on being.
Comment by jbm 1 day ago
This article? If it caused consternation it boggles the mind. These are all completely normal reactions to Apple's AI missteps.
If detailed but milquetoast criticisms are grounds for excommunication, maybe the company really does have serious management issues.
Comment by philistine 1 day ago
Comment by troupo 1 day ago
Comment by Daishiman 1 day ago
This has always been the case at Apple. Tons of ex-employees have commented about challenges in criticism.
Comment by joshstrange 1 day ago
_One_??? Talk about rose tinted liquid glass(es).
Comment by forgetfulness 1 day ago
It was a precipitous fall from grace
Comment by p_l 1 day ago
Comment by notnullorvoid 1 day ago
Ive's vision of Apple as a luxury brand certainly aligned with Cook's focus on profit, and the results of that sadly still echo through the company today.
Comment by karmakaze 1 day ago
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Comment by owenthejumper 1 day ago
Immediately went Tinted mode, yet there is transparency where it shouldn't be, text overlays other text, etc...
Comment by teekert 1 day ago
For me Tinted is ok. Original was indeed very hard to read in places (ie, quick peeks at the notification tray).
Comment by owenthejumper 1 day ago
Comment by gulfofamerica 13 hours ago
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Comment by ChrisMarshallNY 1 day ago
I can get on board with this. I feel as if that has fallen off a cliff, in the last decade.
I just released a rewritten version of an app, and spent many days, running it over, and over, and over again, looking for subtle "pain points." Sadly, some will remain, because SwiftUI is so limited, but I think it came out well.
I do feel that "polishing the fenders" is a big deal. I spent most of my career at a company that would have day-long cage mat- er, meetings, over seemingly insignificant details of user experience.
Comment by jombojam2 1 day ago
Comment by jtbayly 1 day ago
And the form refused to submit. I was on my iPhone. I clicked the button. Nothing happened. I clicked it again. Nothing.
I reminded myself of the reason I had my commitment: Apple does not want my feedback.
Comment by JSR_FDED 1 day ago
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Comment by pupppet 1 day ago
Comment by systoll 1 day ago
> I get to ask Alan Dye about [the shadows on Apple Watch faces]. And he was like, oh, we render a shadow? And I was like, oh, you never even looked. I just instantly realised he’d never really even looked at it. Like, somebody at Apple has, but Alan Dye didn't. […] It just suddenly came to me, oh, he doesn't do the job I thought he did.
Comment by elicash 1 day ago
> [...] I’m reminded of all the UI and interaction designs and changes in iOS and MacOS that are just bad. There’s a real sense that Apple’s current HI team, under Alan Dye, is a “design is what it looks like” group, not a “design is how it works” group.
And this, from June of this year:
> Re-watching Jobs’s introduction of Aqua for the umpteenth time, I still find it enthralling. I found Alan Dye’s introduction of Liquid Glass to be soporific, if not downright horseshitty.
He has been even more critical on his podcast. This has been a repeated refrain and increasing over the years. My first reaction, when I read the news, was "Apple bloggers and podcasters will be THRILLED."
Comment by pupppet 1 day ago
Comment by raldi 1 day ago
https://daringfireball.net/2025/08/macos_26_tahoes_dead_cana...
You seem to have already had your mind made up, though, and are maybe not actually interested in evidence.
Comment by pupppet 1 day ago
Let's all pretend he totally wasn't going out of his way to prevent burning bridges with his Apple connections but starts throwing Alan under the bus after he's gone like he was so obviously the problem at Apple.
Comment by raldi 1 day ago
You seem to have an axe to grind against Gruber, are immune to all evidence against your preconceived worldview, and are projecting this behavior onto the other side of the discussion.
Comment by x0x0 1 day ago
So two mentions in 5 years?
Comment by whynotminot 1 day ago
Comment by lateforwork 1 day ago
Comment by elicash 1 day ago
"But maybe instead of firing him, they start selling pizzas out of the back of Apple stores and Alan Dye can run that and do the graphic design on the boxes. Do the menus. I think Alan Dye could kill that with his Levi's experience, right?"
That's rougher than anything he has said post-firing, in my opinion.
Comment by jtbayly 1 day ago
And Gruber has been at least this harsh on the UI before.
Comment by musicale 4 hours ago
But I suspect that Apple Services have too much power so the platforms will continue to be corrupted with ever-more-intrusive advertising.
Comment by mpweiher 1 day ago
Hardware Design: check
Hardware: check
Software Design: check
Software: please!Comment by tobr 1 day ago
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Comment by tobr 1 day ago
Comment by gcr 1 day ago
iOS 7’s design language was almost universally panned, but if it were “the wrong decision,” other phones wouldn’t have adopted similar design language. Material appeared just a year later in 2014. It wasn’t bad, it was just arbitrary.
(“I like Liquid Glass! I like Liquid Glass!” I insist as i slowly shrink down into the size of a corn cob)
Comment by tobr 1 day ago
Comment by glhaynes 1 day ago
Here’s a video with him discussing the iPhone X interface around its introduction in 2018 that I find fascinating https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/803/
Comment by carlosjobim 1 day ago
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Comment by phantasmish 1 day ago
On iPhone, specifically, it was awful for me. I was too likely to have wet hands (raining, just got out of shower, whatever—even dried, the higher moisture in my skin meant it didn't work) or gloves on or some other problem that made it fail. Trying to hold it the right way, one-handed, to get a finger in the right position (waaaaay down near the bottom) was also a high-risk maneuver for a drop, and was not a way I'd otherwise have tried to hold the device.
Comment by endemic 1 day ago
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Comment by ChrisMarshallNY 1 day ago
Other phones tend to have it on the back, and I have heard there's good progress in having embedded thumbprint readers in the screen.
I have, however, really come to like Face ID.
[UPDATED TO ADD] I think that it's interesting that folks ding comments they disagree with. I upvoted all the responses to my comment, even though they may disagree with me, because they were made in good faith, and contribute to the discussion.
Comment by losvedir 1 day ago
* Some iPads have the finger print reader on the side of the device, on the power button.
* Old Google Pixels had it on the back, conveniently able to be accessed with your index finger as you take the phone out of your pocket.
* Current Google Pixels have it where you just touch the screen.
My Google Pixel 10 has both an in-the-screen fingerprint reader, and a Face ID, and I use both. They're both useful in different situations.
Comment by ChrisMarshallNY 1 day ago
That sounds great.
> Some iPads have the finger print reader on the side of the device, on the power button.
My main iPad is a Mini (latest gen). It has the Touch ID on the top. I find it to be a bit "flaky." It often misses prints. However, I think it works amazingly well, given that it's just a strip.
I also have an iPad Pro, with FaceID. That works nicely. I like that it works in both portrait and landscape. That didn't happen in my older phones, but seems to be the case in my latest (17 Pro).
Comment by tannhaeuser 1 day ago
Comment by ChrisMarshallNY 1 day ago
In fact, it works so well, for me, that I was worried that it was too generous, but it is actually very secure.
Comment by carlosjobim 1 day ago
Samsung phones have had a perfectly working finger print reader under the screen for many years now. There is no more progress to be made, it is complete.
Comment by jeffbee 1 day ago
Comment by carlosjobim 1 day ago
After the great influx of Redditors, the HN comment section has taken a sharp turn towards the hateful. But don't mind those people, their opinions and votes are as worthless as they are.
Comment by tobr 1 day ago
Comment by mpweiher 1 day ago
At this point, they are still as high on their own supply on the software side as they were on the hardware side in the heyday of butterfly keyboards, slow/overheating CPUs and broken screens.
Comment by valleyer 1 day ago
Comment by xnx 1 day ago
Didn't Apples AI guy just get fired? That will have effects on software.
Comment by ricardobeat 1 day ago
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Comment by andrewchilds 1 day ago
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254050878 https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/436949/why-are-som...
Comment by MomsAVoxell 1 day ago
OS vendors have lost the plot. Where a company decides to try to build an operating system for mass acceptance at scale these days, they build an ad delivery platform - not an operating system. The interests of far too many third parties have been elevated at the kernel-extension layer, and lower, and this is as troubling as it ever was.
Its the 21st century and people still don't understand how to manage the filesystem, having given all agency to the task to the backend/cloud, which harvests their data instead of granting the user more agency. In fact, most people have less agency over their data - and simply do not care about it - because they have been lulled into accepting the state of affairs by OS vendors who simply don't want to write a better Finder/File Explorer for the end user - choosing instead, to write an operating system for ad agencies to harvest user eyeballs.
Apple have traditionally avoided the usual pretence of 'ads in the start bar' by leveraging their platforms, and this is starting to fall apart at the seams. Convergence is going to be a joke, and will turn off a lot of computer users until a generation is raised, who will just accept the doctrine of their masters, and in so doing, lose knowledge to the generations.
I yearn for an OS vendor to build an operating system that really makes the user control over their computer and their data, a number one priority. Apple isn't it. Microsoft certainly isn't it. There are multiple Linux OS vendors who could be it, if only they'd get their hardware act into shape. There are hardware vendors struggling to attain this goal, too.
My next laptop won't be an Apple, after 30+ years of adoption of the platform. I fear the future that Apple is laying out ahead of us - just as I feared that of Microsoft and Oracle and IBM too, through the decades.
If there is hope, it lays with the (low-end open source hardware/software-agency-protecting) proles.
Comment by cosmic_cheese 1 day ago
iOS still needs work despite its file manager having become much more capable, but part of that comes down to the differing filesystem arrangement where user documents are kept within app bundles. If raw filesystem access were enabled, that model wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense even to many who are familiar with navigating filesystems. I could see the argument that it should be switched to a traditional desktop OS model, but that’s a deep architectural change.
Windows on the other hand… Explorer just keeps getting slower even if it’s not losing functionality, and Windows has always been poor when it comes to misrepresenting or obfuscating the filesystem. I hate trying to track down where files have been deposited in Windows boxes, and I would agree that it’s been contributing to users not understanding filesystems.
Comment by MomsAVoxell 1 day ago
The filesystem UI has been abandoned in favour of newer, better abstractions, such as 'just throw it all at the Cloud and let our analysis software give you a front-end to it, eventually..'
I think users not understanding filesystems isn't really a computing problem, but a literacy one. In some senses, computing becomes the victim of itself.
Comment by cosmic_cheese 1 day ago
Cloud storage certainly has a convenience factor which is worth considering, but at the same time most people don’t actually need everything available everywhere at all times and only have a handful of files that can intentionally be synced as needed. I really don’t believe that supplanting traditional filesystems with a big bag of data that lives in the cloud is the right answer.
Comment by MomsAVoxell 1 day ago
In any case, we see eye to eye on the convenience factor - it is inescapable, the success rate is clear - but we are looking at the edge case of things anyway, no? The future of Apple is an interesting one - we long term users surely can have an opinion. (Hacked my first Apple in 1981, haven't stopped since.)
Comment by gulfofamerica 13 hours ago
Comment by ksec 1 day ago
It isn't just about UI design. But the whole software stack as well. iOS is still 90% the same as it was launched, and yet the apps management is still inconvenient to say the least. Along with copying all Android features, if I wanted an Android I would have brought one.
The software stack, how many years has Swift been announced? how many years have they announced Swift UI? Xcode? HN discussed macOS problems not long ago [1]. It would have been far better they just stick to Objective-C for the past 10 years and actually get things done.
Comment by jonhohle 1 day ago
Unfortunately, Objective-C added modern language features too late. IB never used the term IoC or anything else devs coming from other ecosystems would understand. A lot of great stuff that NeXT built 30 years ago is still great today, but never had the notoriety of lesser frameworks and languages.
Comment by morgan814 1 day ago
I'm with you there.
Forstall's skeuomorphism gets a lot of hate. It certainly got pretty weird visually. Especially on OS X where a leather-bound Calendar had to interact with other normal windows. But unlike what Ive and Dye have given us, Forstall's UX remained functional overall. I'm glad skeuomorphism is gone, but much of it was done to help the user. Just maybe a bit misguided.
Comment by TYPE_FASTER 1 day ago
It was fixed in an update, but to me that's the canary in the coal mine that priority is wrong. Apple will be ok without Steve as long as somebody is obsessed with the UX being very good. When I see the quality of the UX experience degrading while other UX changes are made that don't improve the basic UX, then there's a problem.
I subscribe to Apple Music, and have built playlists on the service. The fact that I have to enable sync (which then wastes 70G of space on my iPhone) to use my playlists is BS. I don't see a technical reason for it. The only conclusion I can come to is they want to drive storage subscriptions by taking up space using music sync. If anybody wants to explain why sync needs to be enabled, that would be cool, but is a really concerning product management decision IMO.
Comment by mitchbob 1 day ago
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Comment by monster_truck 1 day ago
Two of the three worst interviews I've ever had were with them. Basically got flown out twice to be insulted by team leads or upper management. Everyone insists I'm supposed to keep trying until I don't encounter someone like that but that doesn't seem right to me, not for a company like this. I can wait
Comment by jjtheblunt 1 day ago
Nerd that i am, I immediately thought perhaps the phrase "Dye acolyte" raises a null pointer exception.
Comment by chris_wot 1 day ago
My friend, that was NZ prime minister Robert Muldoon who was quoted as saying “every time a New Zealander emigrates to sun themselves on the beaches of Bondi, the average IQ of both countries increases.”
Comment by dewey 1 day ago
Comment by chris_wot 1 day ago
Comment by classified 1 day ago
Count me in.
Comment by ChrisArchitect 1 day ago
Apple Design Official Alan Dye Poached by Meta in Major Coup
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Comment by Y-bar 1 day ago
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGztGfRujSE (Apple promo) and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z73NELDwyhQ (iJustine interview)
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Comment by cies 1 day ago
He got the message, Meta got the carrot.
He might even be a better fit for Meta.
Comment by ls-a 1 day ago
Comment by kibwen 1 day ago
The decision to align iOS and MacOS with the glassy design of VisionOS was a broader corporate strategy that would have required buy-in from more execs than just the "chief design officer". If you accept that this particular bozo wasn't forced out but instead was tempted away by the scent of lucre wafting from Zuck's pockets, then that implies that there are still plenty of clowns left at Apple to fill out the circus.
Comment by cosmic_cheese 1 day ago
Comment by matwood 1 day ago